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帖子主题:F22绝非无敌 已经被击落三架了!

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F22绝非无敌 已经被击落三架了!

F22绝非无敌 已经被击落三架了!

F22绝非无敌 已经被击落三架了!

F22绝非无敌 已经被击落三架了!

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      2012/12/20 14:33:04

      热门回复

      • 军衔:陆军上尉
      • 军号:3628125
      • 工分:14749
      左箭头-小图标
      热回复背景

      扯淡去吧,红旗军演而已,哪个科目又没见报道,你说近距离缠斗,我看F22讨不到便宜,但视距外攻击和先敌发现我看台风还不是F22对手,F22的雷达也不是吃素的,只在台风雷达之上不会在其下,而且F22超音速巡航也不是没用的技巧,先敌发现后先敌攻击,转身开溜,全程超音速,只怕台风的雷达都没法锁定就要开始做机动规避了,因此不太真实。

      2012/12/23 23:14:31
      左箭头-小图标
      热回复背景

      這是今年在阿拉斯加的紅旗演習中,

      德軍有多次於近距離纏鬥中擊落F-22的紀錄,

      對此相關的討論非常多,

      而美軍最主要的辯解是,

      當時由於F-22機隊深受氧氣系統故障的困擾,

      美國國防部長對於F-22下達了限飛令,

      對於F-22的飛行範圍做了嚴格的限制,讓飛行員感到不適的時候,

      可以在失能前即時的把飛機飛回基地.

      這個限飛令影響了F-22的表現.

      不過德軍則認為,颱風的迴轉率出乎美軍的意料才是德軍得手的關鍵.

      以下是相關的報導之一:

      F-22 Raptor Loses $79 Billion Advantage in Dogfights: Report

      The United States has spent nearly $80 billion to develop the most advanced stealth fighter jet in history, the F-22 Raptor, but the Air Force recently found out firsthand that while the planes own the skies at modern long-range air combat, it is “evenly matched” with cheaper, foreign jets when it comes to old-school dogfighting.

      The F-22 made its debut at the international Red Flag Alaska training exercise this June where the planes “cleared the skies of simulated enemy forces and provided security for Australian, German, Japanese, Polish and [NATO] aircraft,” according to an after-action public report by the Air Force. The F-22 took part in the exercise while under strict flying restrictions imposed by Defense Secretary Leon Panetta in light of mysterious, potentially deadly oxygen problems with the planes — problems that the Pentagon believes it has since solved.

      READ ABC News Investigation: The F-22′s Fatal Flaws

      The Air Force said the planes flew 80 missions during the event “with a very high mission success rate.” However, a new report from Combat Aircraft Monthly revealed that in a handful of missions designed to test the F-22 in a very specific situation – close-range, one-on-one combat – the jet appeared to lose its pricey advantages over a friendly rival, the Eurofighter Typhoon, flown in this case by German airmen.

      “We expected to perform less with the Eurofighter but we didn’t,” German air officer Marc Grune said, according to Combat Aircraft Monthly. “We were evenly matched. They didn’t expect us to turn so aggressively.”

      Two other German officers, Col. Andreas Pfeiffer and Maj. Marco Gumbrecht, noted in the same report that the F-22′s capabilities are “overwhelming” when it comes to modern, long-range combat as the stealth fighter is designed to engage multiple enemies well-beyond the pilot’s natural field of vision — mostly while the F-22 is still out of the other plane’s range. Grumbrecht said that even if his planes did everything right, they weren’t able to get within 20 miles of the next-generation jets before being targeted.

      “But as soon as you get to the merge…” Pfeiffer said, referring to the point at which fighters engage in close-up dogfighting, “in that area, at least, the Typhoon doesn’t necessarily have to fear the F-22 in all aspects… In the dogfight the Eurofighter is at least as capable as the F-22, with advantages in some aspects.”

      In response to the report, a spokesperson for the Air Force, Lt. Col. Tadd Sholtis, told ABC News that one-on-one combat is only one way to evaluate an aircraft’s capabilities and said it’s not “necessarily the most relevant to every scenario.”

      “The F-22 is conceived and employed as part of an integrated force that provides offensive capabilities that make close engagements far less likely while retaining the ability to handle close engagements in tandem with other fighters,” he said.

      Air Force Gen. John Jumper, one of the few airmen to have flown both aircraft before he retired in 2005, said that year that it is difficult to compare the F-22 and the Eurofighter.

      “They are different kinds of airplanes to start with,” he said, according to an Air Force Print News report. “It’s like asking us to compare a NASCAR car with a Formula 1 car. They are both exciting in different ways, but they are designed for different levels of performance.”

      The F-22 “can maneuver with the best of them if it has to, but what you want to be able to do is get into contested airspace no matter where it is,” Jumper said, referring to the F-22′s stealth and supercruise capabilities that are meant to allow the plane to sneak in to hostile territory undetected – an ability the non-stealth Eurofighter lacks.

      As for where that contested airspace may be, the Air Force hasn’t said. But in April 2011 an executive for Lockheed Martin, the primary manufacturer of the F-22, told ABC News that the plane could “absolutely” find a home in quick strike missions against countries like Iran or North Korea. Over the weekend, the Air Force deployed a squadron of F-22s to Kadena Air Base in southern Japan just over 800 miles south of the North Korean border — a move that comes three months after an undisclosed number of the stealth jets were deployed to an allied base in the United Arab Emirates, some 200 miles from the Iranian mainland.

      The F-22 is the single most expensive fighter jet in history at a total acquisition cost of an estimated $79 billion for 187 planes, meaning each plane costs approximately $420 million. Estimates for the Eurofighter Typhoon – the premier fighter for several allied countries including the U.K., Germany and Italy – put that plane at just under $200 million each, according to an April 2011 report by England’s Public Accounts Committee.

      “[Red Flag was] a mission to get to know each other, the first contact by German Eurofighters in the continental U.S.,” Grune said of mock-fighting the F-22s. “We are not planning on facing each other in combat. We want to work together but it was a starter for us to work together. They were impressed, as we were impressed by them.”

      2012/12/21 0:48:36
      左箭头-小图标
      热回复背景

      没有什么可以号称无敌,不过在现阶段最先进的战机还是F22,军事上最强的国家还是美帝

      2012/12/20 20:08:08
      • 军衔:空军中尉
      • 军号:428484
      • 工分:18019
      左箭头-小图标
      热回复背景

      F22无敌就是说隐身无敌的话- -尤其是说1架顶几十架F15的话,为什么美国现在的计划变成了升级F15,并可能使得F15成为全世界服役时限最长的飞机,并且0 0没有升级为沉默鹰!?要知道--升级的目的不是改造成对地攻击机--而是空优战机角色。

      2012/12/20 18:59:27
      • 军衔:陆军中将
      • 军号:5419895
      • 工分:2181814 / 排名:89
      左箭头-小图标
      热回复背景

      大自然的事物都是相生相克的,没有啥是无敌的。任何最先进的武器,都有克制的办法,F22也不利外。

      2012/12/20 19:12:18

      网友回复

      • 军衔:陆军上尉
      • 军号:3628125
      • 工分:14749
      左箭头-小图标

      扯淡去吧,红旗军演而已,哪个科目又没见报道,你说近距离缠斗,我看F22讨不到便宜,但视距外攻击和先敌发现我看台风还不是F22对手,F22的雷达也不是吃素的,只在台风雷达之上不会在其下,而且F22超音速巡航也不是没用的技巧,先敌发现后先敌攻击,转身开溜,全程超音速,只怕台风的雷达都没法锁定就要开始做机动规避了,因此不太真实。

      2012/12/23 23:14:31
      左箭头-小图标

      近战击落的吧。2战的螺旋桨都能近战打掉F22.

      2012/12/23 21:36:39
      左箭头-小图标

       以下是引用1GSHGD 在第5楼的发言:

      大自然的事物都是相生相克的,没有啥是无敌的。任何最先进的武器,都有克制的办法,F22也不利外。

      哲理!

      2012/12/23 11:11:41
      左箭头-小图标

      事到如今,俺不得不交代了:其中一架F22是俺干掉的。事情的经过是这样的……俺住22楼,那天夜里尿急,厕所停水,所以直接跑到阳台对外就撒起了尿。迷糊中觉得有个大鸟从楼前飞过,俺一时兴起,扶住家伙,对准那个大鸟就喷射过去!忽然一声“轰隆!”巨响传来,俺惊呆了。这时楼下不断有人大喊:“F22被击落啦!”“快来看热闹啊!”第二天早上看电视新闻,说是那F22飞机被神秘水枪击中,发动机突然熄火……。额滴神呀!

      本文内容于 2012/12/23 6:45:11 被铁手捉日编辑

      2012/12/23 6:39:29
      左箭头-小图标

      现代战争是整个战争体系进行的战争,单独空军或陆军作战在现代战争中根本不可能什么无敌。现在很多说中国陆军打遍天下无敌手。这是50年前的老思想了。现在从整体军事工业到整个国家经济基础整体考验。不要提是伊拉克,那只是局部战争。但动用的资源不只有军事。

      2012/12/22 21:33:01
      • 军衔:空军中尉
      • 军号:428484
      • 工分:18019
      左箭头-小图标

      看清楚~红旗演习。军事杂志早就载过~可笑的是老美找借口说~F22是出故障了,飞行员就返场了,就怎样~云云~晕死你

       以下是引用lan18081699279 在第2楼的发言:

      楼主 咋个没的F22被打下来的照片嘛 。。。。。

      2012/12/21 20:21:16
      左箭头-小图标

      谁击落的?

      2012/12/21 10:32:24
      左箭头-小图标

      模拟空战和实战还是有很大区别的,模拟空战比的主要是飞行员的个人能力和单机的性能,实战对抗是系统对抗,在模拟空战中取胜不代表实战中也能取胜。

      2012/12/21 10:15:50
      左箭头-小图标

       以下是引用鬼面骑士 在第16楼的发言:

      德国什么时候击落过。。。。

      台风啊

      是有传闻说军演中台风模拟击落了F22的

      2012/12/21 9:40:40
      左箭头-小图标

      这世界,没有什么东西是无敌的,无敌只有不树立敌人,那就是无敌。只要有敌人,你就不存在所谓无敌了。

      2012/12/21 8:39:05
      左箭头-小图标

      德军开的是什么飞机啊??是不是美国产的啊??

      2012/12/21 7:27:51
      左箭头-小图标

      德国什么时候击落过。。。。

      2012/12/21 7:12:25
      左箭头-小图标

      当年罗马军团无敌于天下,当年匈奴骑射无敌于天下,当年拜占庭城堡无敌于天下,当年奥斯曼大炮无敌于天下,当年黄金家族无敌于天下,当年德国虎王无敌于天下,当年零战无敌于天下。

      然后呢?要么没有无敌,有了无敌的,全部迅速被扫进了历史的垃圾堆里去了。

      2012/12/21 1:52:23
      左箭头-小图标

      這是今年在阿拉斯加的紅旗演習中,

      德軍有多次於近距離纏鬥中擊落F-22的紀錄,

      對此相關的討論非常多,

      而美軍最主要的辯解是,

      當時由於F-22機隊深受氧氣系統故障的困擾,

      美國國防部長對於F-22下達了限飛令,

      對於F-22的飛行範圍做了嚴格的限制,讓飛行員感到不適的時候,

      可以在失能前即時的把飛機飛回基地.

      這個限飛令影響了F-22的表現.

      不過德軍則認為,颱風的迴轉率出乎美軍的意料才是德軍得手的關鍵.

      以下是相關的報導之一:

      F-22 Raptor Loses $79 Billion Advantage in Dogfights: Report

      The United States has spent nearly $80 billion to develop the most advanced stealth fighter jet in history, the F-22 Raptor, but the Air Force recently found out firsthand that while the planes own the skies at modern long-range air combat, it is “evenly matched” with cheaper, foreign jets when it comes to old-school dogfighting.

      The F-22 made its debut at the international Red Flag Alaska training exercise this June where the planes “cleared the skies of simulated enemy forces and provided security for Australian, German, Japanese, Polish and [NATO] aircraft,” according to an after-action public report by the Air Force. The F-22 took part in the exercise while under strict flying restrictions imposed by Defense Secretary Leon Panetta in light of mysterious, potentially deadly oxygen problems with the planes — problems that the Pentagon believes it has since solved.

      READ ABC News Investigation: The F-22′s Fatal Flaws

      The Air Force said the planes flew 80 missions during the event “with a very high mission success rate.” However, a new report from Combat Aircraft Monthly revealed that in a handful of missions designed to test the F-22 in a very specific situation – close-range, one-on-one combat – the jet appeared to lose its pricey advantages over a friendly rival, the Eurofighter Typhoon, flown in this case by German airmen.

      “We expected to perform less with the Eurofighter but we didn’t,” German air officer Marc Grune said, according to Combat Aircraft Monthly. “We were evenly matched. They didn’t expect us to turn so aggressively.”

      Two other German officers, Col. Andreas Pfeiffer and Maj. Marco Gumbrecht, noted in the same report that the F-22′s capabilities are “overwhelming” when it comes to modern, long-range combat as the stealth fighter is designed to engage multiple enemies well-beyond the pilot’s natural field of vision — mostly while the F-22 is still out of the other plane’s range. Grumbrecht said that even if his planes did everything right, they weren’t able to get within 20 miles of the next-generation jets before being targeted.

      “But as soon as you get to the merge…” Pfeiffer said, referring to the point at which fighters engage in close-up dogfighting, “in that area, at least, the Typhoon doesn’t necessarily have to fear the F-22 in all aspects… In the dogfight the Eurofighter is at least as capable as the F-22, with advantages in some aspects.”

      In response to the report, a spokesperson for the Air Force, Lt. Col. Tadd Sholtis, told ABC News that one-on-one combat is only one way to evaluate an aircraft’s capabilities and said it’s not “necessarily the most relevant to every scenario.”

      “The F-22 is conceived and employed as part of an integrated force that provides offensive capabilities that make close engagements far less likely while retaining the ability to handle close engagements in tandem with other fighters,” he said.

      Air Force Gen. John Jumper, one of the few airmen to have flown both aircraft before he retired in 2005, said that year that it is difficult to compare the F-22 and the Eurofighter.

      “They are different kinds of airplanes to start with,” he said, according to an Air Force Print News report. “It’s like asking us to compare a NASCAR car with a Formula 1 car. They are both exciting in different ways, but they are designed for different levels of performance.”

      The F-22 “can maneuver with the best of them if it has to, but what you want to be able to do is get into contested airspace no matter where it is,” Jumper said, referring to the F-22′s stealth and supercruise capabilities that are meant to allow the plane to sneak in to hostile territory undetected – an ability the non-stealth Eurofighter lacks.

      As for where that contested airspace may be, the Air Force hasn’t said. But in April 2011 an executive for Lockheed Martin, the primary manufacturer of the F-22, told ABC News that the plane could “absolutely” find a home in quick strike missions against countries like Iran or North Korea. Over the weekend, the Air Force deployed a squadron of F-22s to Kadena Air Base in southern Japan just over 800 miles south of the North Korean border — a move that comes three months after an undisclosed number of the stealth jets were deployed to an allied base in the United Arab Emirates, some 200 miles from the Iranian mainland.

      The F-22 is the single most expensive fighter jet in history at a total acquisition cost of an estimated $79 billion for 187 planes, meaning each plane costs approximately $420 million. Estimates for the Eurofighter Typhoon – the premier fighter for several allied countries including the U.K., Germany and Italy – put that plane at just under $200 million each, according to an April 2011 report by England’s Public Accounts Committee.

      “[Red Flag was] a mission to get to know each other, the first contact by German Eurofighters in the continental U.S.,” Grune said of mock-fighting the F-22s. “We are not planning on facing each other in combat. We want to work together but it was a starter for us to work together. They were impressed, as we were impressed by them.”

      2012/12/21 0:48:36
      左箭头-小图标

      号称无敌的是精神,目前中国无敌。。。。

      2012/12/21 0:45:26
      左箭头-小图标

      打下来的照片呢?

      2012/12/20 23:06:16
      左箭头-小图标

      演习击落,可以问度娘

      2012/12/20 23:01:09
      左箭头-小图标

      都说是真的,可是都没证据

      2012/12/20 22:40:57
      左箭头-小图标

      次奥!真的假的!

      2012/12/20 22:07:25
      • 军衔:海军中尉
      • 军号:1385221
      • 工分:13168
      左箭头-小图标

       以下是引用lan18081699279 在第2楼的发言:

      楼主 咋个没的F22被打下来的照片嘛 。。。。。

      这个应该是演习击落的吧.....

      2012/12/20 20:37:24
      • 军衔:陆军中尉
      • 军号:3305710
      • 工分:12263
      左箭头-小图标

      被发改委击落的吧??

      2012/12/20 20:26:50
      左箭头-小图标

      没有什么可以号称无敌,不过在现阶段最先进的战机还是F22,军事上最强的国家还是美帝

      2012/12/20 20:08:08
      • 军衔:陆军中将
      • 军号:5419895
      • 工分:2181814 / 排名:89
      左箭头-小图标

      大自然的事物都是相生相克的,没有啥是无敌的。任何最先进的武器,都有克制的办法,F22也不利外。

      2012/12/20 19:12:18
      • 军衔:空军中尉
      • 军号:428484
      • 工分:18019
      左箭头-小图标

      F22无敌就是说隐身无敌的话- -尤其是说1架顶几十架F15的话,为什么美国现在的计划变成了升级F15,并可能使得F15成为全世界服役时限最长的飞机,并且0 0没有升级为沉默鹰!?要知道--升级的目的不是改造成对地攻击机--而是空优战机角色。

      2012/12/20 18:59:27
      左箭头-小图标

      楼主 咋个没的F22被打下来的照片嘛 。。。。。

      2012/12/20 16:17:24

      我要发帖

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       对F22绝非无敌 已经被击落三架了!回复