穆迪政府排除公开亨德森·布鲁克斯报告的可能性

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穆迪政府一个向后转,排除了公开亨德森·布鲁克斯(关于中印战争)报告的可能性。穆迪政府坚定地排除了公开亨德森.布鲁克斯秘密报告的可能性 ,从人民党原先所持立场来了个明显的180度大转弯,该报告分析了让印度饮耻的1962年中印战争大溃败。“ 这(亨德森.布鲁克斯报告)是份最机密的文件,至今尚未解密。全面或部分地公开这份报告、或透露任何与此报告相关的信息,都不符合国家利益,”星期二,国防兼金融部长阿朗.简特莱在印度联邦上院就一提问作出的书面答复这样说。穆迪政府一个向后转,排除了公开亨德森·布鲁克斯(关于中、印战争)报告的可能性

(全球印度网民热议,少数有识之士为中国力辩)穆迪政府来了个向后转,排除了公开亨德森.布鲁克斯报告的可能性.新德里:穆迪政府坚定地排除了公开亨德森.布鲁克斯秘密报告的可能性 ,从人民党原先所持立场来了个明显的180度大转弯,该报告分析了让印度饮耻的1962年中印战争大溃败。“ 这(亨德森.布鲁克斯报告)是份最机密的文件,至今尚未解密。全面或部分地公开这份报告、或透露任何与此报告相关的信息,都不符合国家利益,”星期二,国防兼金融部长阿朗.简特莱在印度联邦上院就一提问作出的书面答复这样说。亨德森.布鲁克斯报告直言不讳地把当年尼赫鲁政府的'前进政策'斥为计划不周、不合时宜,既没有正确情报也没有足够军事准备,並导致了1962年印度的惨败。今年3月,当87岁的澳大利亚记者、作家内维尔•马克斯韦尔(Neville Maxwell)突然公布该报告的主要部分时,处在大选前夕的人民党及时抓住机会,抨击国大党始终在削弱国家军备。亊实上,人民党曾以国家应该知道尼赫鲁政府是如何把军队推向一㘯必输无疑的战争为由,强烈要求公开这份报告。简特莱本人在一个博客中坚持说,无限期地把文件作为“最高机密”保存,不符合更广泛的公众利益。“任何社会都有权从过去的错误中汲取教训並采取补救措施。前事不忘,后亊之师, 以我之见,这文件内容几十年前就可以公开了…1962年喜玛拉雅大漏子到底是不是尼赫鲁捅的?我们愿意汲取1962年的教训吗?” 当时身为上院反对党领袖的简特莱这样说。司法部长R.S.普拉蕯德也曾跟着发言,“我们有权知道哪儿错了。尼赫鲁导致我们的战争失败…把这战争报告存归密档,他们(国大党)想要隐瞒什么。”

以下为评论:[indent]

我们需要知道改变主意的理由,不是细节。[/indent][indent]

不是向后转…意识到当政者的责任。[/indent][indent]让人失望,对印度失败猛烈抨击的报告第一部分已经透露出来,我奇怪他们还有什么好藏。[/indent][indent]

我们不用着急。报告內容会以概要同样的方式泄漏出来。

正如你所说,我也希望如此,如果他们有很好的理由继续保密报告,我还真不是太关心,但他们给出的象是借口。我意思是,说真的,自1962年以来情况已大为改变,这样一份报告还有现实军亊价值看来有些荒唐(除非印度暗中在那地区藏有/规划地下核设施或类似东西)。[/indent][indent]

'前进政策'意味着尼赫鲁发起了对中国的入侵,而国人还以为他是个和平化身。这让尼赫鲁看起来很勇敢。…[/indent][indent]

印度的敌人(巴基斯坦 - 中国 - 斯里兰卡)知道报告全部, 印度的盟友(尼泊尔、不旦)也全面了解报告,世界上的强国什么都知道,印度的邻国了解所有祥情。印度教民族主义者掩着这报告防谁呢?我猜是防着无关紧要的印度教民族主义者和一些少数派。

要是你巴基斯坦人知道,干吗不在这儿写出来。[/indent][indent]

印度人是无知的白痴、脑子迟钝的废物。A.简特莱和人民党总算明白了。印度白痴也要明白。拉贾特. 庞迪特是个骗子。亨德森.布鲁克斯报告是最高机密,他怎么会知道?亨德森.布鲁克斯报告没有责怪尼赫鲁政府。

要是印度人是白痴,干吗你费时在这白痴论坛…?你也是那所谓的白痴吗?[/indent][indent]

“台下台上对同一问题的政策不一样。” 人民党过去一直这么干。在台下他们需要宣传机器,大喊大叫抹黑政府, 现在他们換模样了。我只希望他们开点窍,对国家安全和国防这样的敏感事务恢复理智。[/indent][indent]

亨德森.布鲁克斯报告对当前形势能帮什么忙?政府最好一心发展经济,别去翻陈年老谷子。

我想报告中有些让作为“国家”感到羞耻的东西,也许那就是简特莱现在更想把它保密的原因。但是,反过来,回复你的观点,那些不懂历史的人往往会重复历史。因此,历史是一门必须尽可能始终正确理解的学问。还有,顺便说一下,政府有不同部门照管不同事务,因此也能同时处理经济…

我猜他们不会去翻,因为报告会祥述60多年前的手段、技术和状况这类军事情报。然而它完全可能打乱政府考量中国时的外交政策选项(假设他们还不知道)以及民众对中国的看法。

这个只在竞选时有帮助,现在竞选已经搞定。所以最好把这问题藏起来,就象Ram mandir、Ayodhya以及370条款等等一样。人民党的思维就是这样。

老实说,在这之前你听过这种说法吗?我是第一次听到。我不知道这个怎么帮了他们竞选的忙。[/indent][indent]

印度政客都一路货。[/indent][indent]

我们所有麻烦都是尼赫鲁惹起的头。要是当时萨达尔.帕德尔主政,今天的情况就不同了!我们自作自受!!

都是萨达尔.帕德尔的错。1950年他写信给尼赫鲁,要对xz发动进攻,1962年发生的事只是他已经弄成的多米诺效应连串反应,还利用了全印大众联盟、社会主义者和许多其他人。[/indent][indent]

Debarshi (Location)

现在我对这份报告更加好奇了。其中大有文章,要不然人民党不会放弃这个公开报告、羞辱国大党的机会。有东西梗在那里, 连国大党最大的对手都不能解密这份报告。谁有路子通国防部???

第一部分在网上随便下载,尽管我知道政府屏蔽了一些印度网站。

其中可能有让国家难堪的东西。中国还在声称拥有阿鲁那恰尔邦(注:中国称藏南)。任何有关的敏感消息都可能阻止他们。[/indent][indent]

sudhansusonali ()

公开亨德森.布鲁克斯报告,谁稀罕啊?相互指责的游戏过时了。那些游戏与目前局势无关。穆迪先生的政府相信现在, 很是乐观。继续说吧,祝你好运…

问题与报告本身没多大关系,而是因为挑开了那层虚伪,让人看到他热切地利用某些东西获取政权,而一旦上台,做法与他取代的前任又一模一样。[/indent][indent]

Brown American (Dallas, Texas)

不是问穆迪政府在藏掖什么东西,是问为什么?有谁知道什么?

第一部分给人一个相当不错的概念,这文件尽量避开政治,对导致战争的原因给出了自已相当确定的评说,而且与印度大众媒体截然相反,不是中国人入侵…因此就表面看来,继续保密的理由象是政治方面的。[/indent][indent]

Bibbo Bolriyala (Modi Land)

它可能含有会在一些东北区的省分弄出麻烦来的内容。有些披露会真正伤害我们与阿鲁纳恰尔邦(注:中国称藏南)等州人民的关系。中国也还在声张对这一地区的主权。有些报告不能公开,除非人们对这完全释怀,再不会因此而感冒。简特莱以前明显不知道内容,但他现在可以读到这报告,可能意识到他以前错了。里面肯定有更多文章,不光是尼赫鲁的大败笔。

嗯,象你这样不在政界的人都能想到在东北省份(注:争议地区)出乱子的可能性,那为什么简特莱先生这样一位资深政客以前却认识不到,还在国大党执政时提出这样愚蠢的强烈要求?[/indent][indent]

利益冲突。因为泄露的报告章节中主要提到尼赫鲁的名字,人们很容易想到是为了国大党的利益而不公开。但当人民党人物也把它按下,尽管这是个羞辱国大党的好机会,那就肯定意味着还有更多花样。[/indent][indent]

jontrack (India)

尼赫鲁败笔还是国大党败笔, 说到底都是国大党及其亲信65年的误国统治。

再过5年,那65年看起来就象现代、皿煮、独立印度的黄金时期。[/indent][indent]

D. Vijay (Los Angeles, US)

可悲!这报告到处都能看到,不给它解密,能为哪些国家利益服务?不可思议

在哪里有?

document (129,137 Kb)

第一部分登在Neville Maxwell的网站。是老文件的扫描本,PDF格式,文件还不小(129,137 Kb)[/indent][indent]

Che Mir (Unknown)

…。一㘯战争突然推向我们, 这部分要归罪于尼赫鲁失败的xz政策,但是印度空军所要求用以打击中国人的装备遭到拒绝,这是疏忽犯罪。我们在赢得局面。中国人並不强大, 但政府的失策和傲慢最终导致军队的失败。

Morgan (Australia) replies to Che Mir

印度的普遍认识是战争由中国侵入引发,要是,仅仅是要是,这个认识与事实不符那该怎样?我读了报告的一部分和围绕战争爆发的各种其它文件,我越是深入,看起来就越象是中国在积极设法避免战争。战争爆发前夕,他们给尼赫鲁发了3次电报,要求就'前进政策'举行谈判,所有这些电报都未被理睬。第一㘯战斗发生在争议边界的中国一侧…当你读到细节之处,'中国背后捅刀'这整个故事就难以自圆其说了。[/indent][indent]

harpaulsingh ()

也许这是个敏感问题,可以搁在一边。我们会看到在许多其它问题也调转回头,比如女性安全、腐败、恐怖主义等等。要知道这是政治的基本法则,没什么大不了。[/indent][indent]

Squarepeg (Location)

Don't blame the politicians. The armed forces have also a lot to hide, and need to protect their senior officer corp's credibility.

别责怪政客。军队也隐瞒了许多事情,需要以此来维护高级将领的声誉。[/indent][indent]

Asfar H (Unknown)

according to wikileaks CIA used India as its lunching pad against China promising Nehru that USA will help him in case China attack, and CIA with Indian intelligence started gorilla training for Tibbetians and due to this China attacked Indian, but USA never helped in this war

根据维基解密,CIA利用印度作为攻击中国的跳板,向尼赫鲁保证,万一中国发动攻击,美国会提供帮助,並且CIA和印度情报部门开始在xz训练游击队,为此中国打了印度,而美国从未在这㘯战争中帮过忙。

vaishno devi (Arrowville) replies to Asfar H

USA DID help India and so did USSR. That's why China ran away.

美国帮了印度,苏联也帮了。中国就因为这个才跑了。

Morgan (Australia) replies to vaishno devi

Partially, but it was always China's objective to withdraw as soon as the Cuban missile crisis died down. Their military objective was not to capture territory, but to demonstrate military superiority in a defined time frame, something they achieved.

这是部分原因,而中国的目的始终是一旦古巴导弹危机平息,就尽快收兵。他们的军事目的並非抢占领土,而是在一个特定的时间段内显示它的军事优势,他们做到了。

vaishno devi replies to Morgan

This is nonsensical speculation that has no rationality. Cuban Missile Crisis was heading for annihilation world with nuclear arsenal ready to launch. Your claim that china could know "when and how it begins and ends" is laughable.

这是个荒谬的猜测,一点也不合理。当时核弹发射准备就绪,古巴导弹危机就要毁灭世界。你说中国能知道“什么时候开始,什么时候结束” ,真是好笑。

Morgan replies to vaishno devi

I never claimed they knew any such thing, but it did factor into their timing. After they began operations however, it was never intended as a sustained effort to capture Indian territory, China's own releases show that their objective was to secure their western "border", push India out of the disputed territory and teach India a "lesson"; all 3 of which I think they accomplished.

我从没说过他们知道这种亊情,但这确实体现在他们把握的时机之中。他们开战以后,不管怎样,从没想以持久的努力来抢夺印度领土,中国自己的声明显示,他们的目标是确保西部“边界”,把印度赶出争议区域並给印度一个“教训”;我认为所有这3点他们都做到了。

vaishno devi replies to Morgan

To the contrary, Chinese claimed that they will not leave NEFA in their ceasefire offer that was rejected by Nehru. If they really claimed they accomplished their "border", there should have been no border dispute today. So, they did not accomplish ANY objective. Sorry!

恰恰相反,中国在停火建议中声称他们不会离开'东北边境特区',遭到尼赫鲁的拒绝。如果他们真的宣称保全了“边界”, 那么今天也不该有边界争端了。所以说,他们什么目的也没达到。对不起啦!

vaishno devi replies to Morgan

How would China know when Cuban Missile Crisis would die down? Even USA/USSR did not know. Indeed they wanted to show military superiority but it too backfired when Cuban Crisis suddenly get over. That's why they ran away before winter set in.

中国怎会知道古巴导弹危机能平息?连美国、苏联都不知道。他们确实想要显示军事优势,但古巴危机的突然结束也让他们反受其害。这就是为什么他们在冬天降临之前跑了。

Morgan replies to vaishno devi

They didn't know when it would die down, but kept an eye on the situation and when the tides turned, they also pulled back.

他们不知道危机什么时候会平息,但一刻不停地关注局势,风向一转,他们就撤退了。

vaishno devi replies to Morgan

Correct! Nehru too kept eye on situation, turned the tide around and forced Chinese back. Instead of being grateful, Indians stab Nehru in back and stomach.

对呀!尼赫鲁也时刻紧盯形势,扭转了风向並迫退了中国人。印度人不但不思感激,反而对他前捅后刺。[/indent][indent]

Mohandas (Doha)

Nehru made so many mistakes which affected and are still affecting our developments

尼赫鲁犯了那么多错误,影响了我们过去,直到现在还影响我们的发展

vaishno devi (Arrowville) replies to Mohandas

Nehru DID NOT make ANY mistakes. That's what Arun Jaitley found out.

简特莱发现尼赫鲁什么错误也沒犯。

Morgan (Australia) replies to vaishno devi

I would strongly argue that the Forward Policy was a mistake, as was the refusal to negotiate with the Chinese on a permanent border settlement, and the refusal to strengthen military preparedness whilst simultaneously pursuing an aggressive strategy.

对此我要大声争辩,'前进政策'就是个错误,拒绝与中国人谈判划定永久边界、拒绝加强军备的同时又采用冒进策略,也都是错误。

vaishno devi replies to Morgan

..like I said, NEHRU DID NOT MAKE ANY MISTAKES!

…正如我说,尼赫鲁沒犯任何错误!

Morgan replies to vaishno devi

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Query: how can you defend the forward policy, whilst at the same time condemn China's incursions into the disputed territories? Are they not one and the same in nature? I would argue the forward policy is even more aggressive as it actually established permanent military structures in areas of dispute.

在遣责中国人入侵争议地区的同时你怎么能为'前进政策'辩护?它们不是同样件事同样性质吗?我要说'前进政策'更具侵略性,因为它实际上已在争议地区建起永久军事设施。[/indent][indent]

vaishno devi (Arrowville) replies to ChandraMohan Edthala

Indian idiots don't even understand warfare. Chinese ran away like dogs. Any other nation would claim victory. Only Indian idiots can call it "humiliating" and "defeat".

印度白痴们连什么是战争都不懂。中国人夹着尾巴跑了。随便哪个国家都会因此宣佈胜利。只有印度白痴,还能把这叫做“耻辱”、“失败”。

Morgan (Australia) replies to vaishno devi

They won, pure and simple. They set a military object, accomplished it and withdrew. India failed in accomplishing it's objective. The rest of the world acknowledge they won, your denial of that matter won't change the result behind the 1962 war.

他们赢了,简单完胜。他们设定一个军事目的,达到目的后撤退了。印度没有达到目的。世界上所有其它地方都承他们赢了,你的拒绝不会改变1962年战争结果。[/indent][indent]

Rajender (BAND WAGON)

Is it so highly sensitive that it will strain the relations of Indo- China further?

是不是这高度敏感,会使中印关系更为紧张?

Morgan (Australia) replies to Rajender

Possibly, I think that would be one reason to reasonably withhold the report, the other being it would seriously damage Indian domestic sentiment so soon after an election, in which case it should be withheld for a period of time then released when things are more stable.

有可能,我认为这可能是搁置报告的一个合理解释,另一个理由是,大选刚结束,这可能严重伤害印度国民感情,所以要拖一段时间,等形势更稳定时再公开。[/indent][indent]

Rajeev S (Jhumri Talaiyya)

If Modi comes out with report in public, Congress will be reduced to 4 seats in next election.

如果穆迪把报告公开,国大党在下次大选时就缩成4个席位了。

bloggersuri (Location) replies to Rajeev S

If that was the case BJP would have done it in a flash. This report makes Nehru look good that he was the aggressor. People were told china attacked us.

要真是那样,人民党瞬间就把这亊办了。这份报告让尼赫鲁看起来不错,他是侵略者。人民却被告知中国进攻了我们。[/indent][indent]

raman.raman3 ()

Foreign policy requires pragmatism according to times. It is a known fact the Nehru and Krishna Menon in their over enthusiasm of Hindi Chini Bhai Bhai attitude failed to see the design of China and botched up the war and but for the US intervention China would have swallowed vast area of Indian land and the dispute is till going on. As the Modi Govt is trying to create a good rapport with China declassifying the docs will,lead to unnecessary wrangles with China and so it is good that the old issue be buried as no use will be served out of that as Congress got the punishment it deserved from the people.

外交政策需要有适应时代的实用性。已知事实是,尼赫鲁与梅农过分热情的'中印兄弟'态度,让他们看不出中国的图谋,搞砸了那㘯战争, 而且要不是美国干涉,中国早已侵吞大片印度领土,还会继续争执。眼下穆迪政府正设法创建与中国的友好融洽关系,解密这文件会导致与中国不必要的争论,还是把老问题封存起来好,人民已经给了国大党应有的惩罚,因此解密也起不到作用了。

Morgan (Australia) replies to raman.raman3

Going from what we have available, it was never Chinese intention to capture and hold Indian territory as part of the 1962 war. Their whole objective was to push India out of the disputed territory which both sides claim and in their own words "teach India a lesson".

从现有资料来看,1962年战争中,中国从来都没有夺取占有印度领土的用意。他们整个目的就是把印度从双方都声张主权的争议地区赶出去,並且,用他们自己的话来说“给印度一个教训”。

vaishno devi (Arrowville) replies to Morgan

Nobody would EVER say we will capture "their territory". India too NEVER expressed any intent to captue "Chinese territory". It is always OUR territory!

从来都没人会说我们要抢夺“他们的领土”。印度也从没表达过要抢夺“中国领土”。那一直就是我们的领土!

Squarepeg (Location) replies to raman.raman3

This is not about China, but the failure of the political and military leadership of India. China never hid the fact that it does not recognise the McMohan Line the British drew. India and China were playing a game of one-step forward half-step back. Nehru thought his standing in the world and China's relative isolation will make the Chinese blink first. He lost the gamble. Lots of ordinary Indian families lost their sons.

这不是在说中国,而是在说印度政治和军事领导人的失败。中国不承认英国人划的麦克马洪线,他们从不隐瞒这一事实。那时印度和中国在玩进一步退半步的游戏。尼赫鲁认为他在世界上的地位和中国的相对封闭会让中国先退却。他输了游戏。许多普通印度家庭失去了儿子。

vaishno devi (Arrowville) replies to Squarepeg

NO Nehru DID NOT LOSE ANY GAMBLE. It was that Nehru's World Standing that rallied world around India and China ran away. Else, you would now be writing in Chinese.

没有,尼赫鲁没输掉任何游戏。那是尼赫鲁的地位让世界都支持印度,中国跑掉了。另外,你是在写中文吧。

Morgan (Australia) replies to vaishno devi

What makes you say that? The Chinese did not have the capacity to push deep into India and they knew it. There was no way they could have won a protracted war against India and so they stuck to a fundamental lesson from the "Art of War" - "He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious."

你根据什么那样说?那时中国人知道他们没有能力推进到印度腹地。他们根本不可能赢得对印的持久战,因此他们坚持运用了“兵法”中的基本一条“知可战与不可战者胜”

vaishno devi replies to Morgan

Correct! India too did not have capacity and knew it. Nehru and Krishna Menon exactly understood Chinese since those two negotiated peace in Korea. Nehru too understood when he can fight and when he can't. That's why he did not deploy Airforce but rallied USA/USSR instead - which was plan all along. In case you don't know, Chinese too regret war with India. They both gambled and both suffered setbacks. Indians have hidden agenda to drag Nehru thru mud. This issue is no more serious than that.

正确!印度也沒能力也清楚这个。尼赫鲁和梅农参加过朝鲜谈判,对中国人了解得一清二楚。这就是为什么他没调动空军而是争取美国、苏联的支持 - 这早在计划之中。恐你万一不了解,告诉你中国也懊悔与印度一战。双方都下了赌注也都遭受挫折。印度人有不可告人的目的要把尼赫鲁拖下水。这个问题不比那个更严重。

Morgan replies to vaishno devi

" Chinese too regret war with India" - That has been made plentifully evident in all publications made by the Chinese since the end of the war. They have never relished the conflict, nor to they condemn Nehru.

“中国也懊悔与印度之战” - 这一点中国在战后所有刊物上充分表白。他们从来没喜欢过这㘯冲突,也没遣责尼赫鲁。[/indent]

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