一个印度人和中国一位17岁男孩讨论中印战争

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Zhao: oh, Do you know Mandela passed away 3 days ago? I think he was proud that he was black

before 1840 year (England invade China). Chinese think China is the strongest in the world, so we look down upon foreigner.

Zhao: but after 1840,we know ,china is a poor country. we not have power that we can look down upon foreigner

Me: In the present world we are all equal

Zhao: Do you know between Chinese and Japanese the biggest difference?

Me: what is that?

赵:哦,你知道曼德拉3天前去世了吗?我认为他就为身为黑人而感到自豪。

1840年(英国入侵中国)前,中国人认为自己国家是世界最强大的,所以看不起外国人

赵:但是1840年后,中国沦为穷国了,实力不如人,再也不敢小瞧外国人了。

我:在当今世界,我们都是平等的。

赵:你知道中国人和日本人之间的最大区别吗?

我:是什么?

Zhao: Japanese want be a powerhouse (like america).chinese want replace America. Perhaps its reason is that the East country said China is a ambition country

Me: Very good. You are very intelligent for your age Zhao

Zhao: Oh! and I have a question .Last week ,my grandfather said many about Battle of Walong. in your mind ,what happened in 1962?

赵:日本想成为美国那样的强国,中国想取代美国。也许这就是那个东方国家说中国野心勃勃的原因。

我:非常好。就你这个年龄来说,你算很聪明了。

赵:哦!我有一个问题。上周,我祖父说了很多瓦弄之战的故事。你对1962年的那场战争是怎么看的?

thank you.

Reminiscences [ I had to look for Walong before replying to him. I myself don’t know what exactly happened except that a unnecessary war was thrust upon us by over ambitious Mao. However, I only know the Indian side of the story- the one which was told to us by our governement. I was a ten years old child then. Children of that age identify themselves with the soldiers as their heroes and the war games excite them. The rivals obviously are considered as evil. Only we had a radio in the cluster of apartments in a huge lodge named Constance Lodge in Shimla where we lived. I spent all my childhood there. My father and all the neighbourhood ‘uncles’ would gather around the Radio for 8 O’clock morning news. The news would bring the stories of valour by ill equipped soldiers and of retreat of Indian army from one post after another, fighting bravely. I remember clearly the gloom setting on their worried faces. Since our house was near the police lines and Shimla was probably reachable by the invading planes, trenches were dug out by the policemen with instructions for us to hide in those during air raids. Those trenches and all the war news gave us exciting war games. I don’t remember having heard the sirens announcing raids but I remember seeing tracer fire, tracking raiding aeroplanes. I also remember that some Indian diplomats was beaten, his face was blackened and a garland of shoes was put in his neck in Peking. In those days, we the children developed a strong hatred for the Chinese. A lot of Tibeteans who fled Tibet came to settle in Shimla too. Many of them still live there. Before that all I knew about the Chinese was that most of them were Opium addicts “afeemchi” is the Hindi word for opium addicts. There was one shop at 'Scandal Point' of a Chinese shoe maker in Shimla. “Lee” or such was the name. 'Haqeeqat' meaning the truth was a movie based on the Chinese invasion and I remember having shed buckets of tears seeing the movie. In those days we were allowed to see only good cinemas and this was one that we were taken to. A lot of patriotic songs were written in those days for inspiring the people who were proud and patriotic then. A song sung by Lata Mangeshkar and written by Indivar “ Ai mere watan ke logo” ( O The people of my country) told the excruciating details of the war and brought the whole nation to tears. The song till today is probably the most heard song in India.]

http://thediplomat.com/2012/10/seeing-china-through-indian-eyes-the-legacy-of-1962/comment-page-3/

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/History/1962War/Walong.html

We would tease the Tibetans ( whom we called Lama Sippi), singing a four line teaser which they didn’t understand. It went like this-

Lama sippi khatta kha- O lama sippi take/eat sour thing

Khatta kha ke paani pi- Drink water after eating sour thing

Pani pee ke mar ja- And then die after drinking water.

They would come around begging sometimes or selling coloured bead strings or “Hing” (Asafoetida). They wore strange clothes, put beads in their hair and had prayer bead string or rotating drum ( we called it Tibeti ( of the Tibetans)Damru (A small handheld drum seen in Lord Shiva’s hand)

Me: Let us know what your grand father said about the war

Zhao: He said, Nehru had many the wrong decision.

Me: What I know is the Indian side of the story and to tell you frankly this is the main reason why the Indians hate the Chinese

Me: What were those wrong decisions?

我:可以说说你祖父是怎么评价这场战争的吗

赵:他说尼赫鲁做出了许多错误决定

我:我了解的是印度方面的说法。坦白说,这就是印度人讨厌中国人的主要原因。

我:哪些决定是错误的?

Me: So he approached Mao and Zhao En Lai. The agreement was signed but the Chinese invaded India and set up their posts inside Indian territory.

Zhao: its zhou en lai

our minister

Me: India asked them to remove the posts. The fight ensued. India was not at all prepared. We did not have a well equipped and big army, no preparation, no roads. Our soldiers were not trained to fight at those high altitudes

Because Nehru believed in peace and he believed in the sanctity of his peace formula which he had got signed from chairman Mao.

我:所以他找毛泽东和周恩来签署了协议,但是中国后来入侵印度,并在印度领土内建立了哨所。

赵:是周恩来吧,他是我们的(外交)部长

我:印度要求中方撤掉哨所。一场战争随之而起。印度并未准备充分,军队装备不精良,缺乏道路等基础设施。我们的士兵并未经过高原作战的训练。原因是尼赫鲁主张和平,他相信他和毛一起签署的和平共处五项原则神圣不可侵犯。

Zhao: But China also was a poor country

in 1962, India's GDP was higher than that of China

and I know Indian AIR FORCE was not scrambled. [ Don't know what he meant by this]

Me: Yes, China was a poor country and your Chairman Mao wanted to show to the people the success of communism, so he wanted to gain support of people. So he attacked India. We lost a lot of territory and too many soldiers lost their lives. The Indians have not forgotten that treachery. That is why most of the Indians hate and do not trust China

Zhao: trest me ,you don’t wanna know what China said.

trust

Me: Your government may not acknowledge the truth and you are like my grand son and because you have asked this today, so I have told you about it. I was a ten years old child when India was attacked and the memories are still fresh in my mind

赵:中国也是穷国,印度1962年的GDP比中国更高。印度空军当时并未出动。

我:是的,中国当时是穷国,你们的毛主席希望向人民证明共产主义的成功,想要获得人民的支持,所以进攻印度。我们失去了大量领土,许多士兵失去生命。印度人并未忘记中国的那次背叛。这就是大多数印度人讨厌且不信任中国的原因。

赵:相信我,你不会想知道中国方法的说法。

我:你们政府也许不会承认事实,你就像我的孙子,你今天问了这个问题,所以我就如实相告了。印度被攻击时我10岁,仍记忆犹新。

Zhao: all the people remains on high alert?

Me: What you have heard from the China radio is not the truth because China radio and television even today is controlled by the government

Zhao: but why not India fight to the death with China?

but maybe India radio said lie. I don’t know. We are not Mao or Nehru.

India hate China , China hate Japan ,

what the end of hate chain ?

赵:所有人处于高度戒备状态?

我:你从中国广播中听到的并非是真相,因为迄今为止,中国的电台和电视仍受政府控制。

赵:为什么印度不和中国战斗到死?也许印度电台说了谎。不确定就是了,毕竟我们既不是毛,也不是尼赫鲁。

印度讨厌中国,中国讨厌印度。这种仇恨循环什么时候结束?

Me:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0154565/

This poignant movie made after the war shook the whole nation and this song http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0154565/

even today moves every Indian to tears.

I am going down for dinner. We will talk tomorrow. Good Night

Zhao: I wish our talk in this night,cant influence our friendship

( The child is worried that he may not have hurt me by bringing the painful memories back to me)

Me: The only way to end the hate chain is to stop talking about the past. Indians can do it. We have done it. After thousands of years of hate by the Islamist invaders and the atrocities by the British, we have put the past behind and moved on. Our religion teaches us to forget and forgive.

我:战后拍的这部电影震动了整个国家。http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0154565/

这首歌至今让印度人听了潸然泪下。

我要下去吃晚饭了,明天再聊。晚安

赵:希望晚上的聊天不会影响我们的友谊

[这孩子担心勾起我的痛苦回忆会伤害到我]

我:结束仇恨的唯一方法是不再讨论过去。印度人能办到,且已经办到了。数千年来,印度遭受了ysl的入侵和英国的暴行,但是我们忘记过去,继续前行。我们的宗教教导我们忘记过去和冰释前嫌。

印度网友的评论:

xiyangyang

It is strange, Chinese and Indians have a big difference about the 1962 war, Chinese think Indians are too ambitious, the Indian invade China and occupy a large piece of Chinese territory. China had to fight back, Mao even willing to give some China territory to India, but after India get our territory, India put forward and ask for more requirements, and rejected China's negotiation request. The 1962 war is called War of self-defense. I do not know which side is right, but it is true that China and India have the opposite point of view...

奇怪,中国人和印度人对1962年中印战争的看法大不相同。中国人认为印度人野心过大,入侵并占领了中国大片领土,中国只好做出反击。毛当时甚至愿意把一些中国领土让给印度,但是印度得寸进尺,实行前进政策,提出更多要求,拒绝中国的谈判要求。1962年战争被称为自卫反击战。我不知道哪一方说得是对的,反正中国和印度的看法不同.....

navneetkumarbakshi

Hello Xiyanyang,

The wars occur because of difference of opinions and I am sure the politicians keep the people in the dark. No country will accept it's fault in starting the war, so talking about whose fault it was will be akin to starting another fight . All that I can say is that in history you cannot find any instances of aggression by India. Ever since our existence we have been invaded and our territory has been snatched from us. Nehru was a diffident man and he was pushing his five point peace plan for peaceful existence with the neighbours. India did not have any reason to start war with China when we didn't even have roads in the Himalayas and our soldiers were so ill equipped that they went to war wearing canvas shoes. If Nehru was perpetrating war, he would have at least equipped his army

战争是因为分歧而爆发的,我确信政客把人们蒙在了鼓里。任何国家都不会承认战争是己方造成的,所以讨论是谁的错又会闹得争论不休。我要说的是,印度历史上从未侵略其他国家,而是一直受到侵略,领土被占。尼赫鲁就是个奇葩,他推动与邻国共建和平共处五项原则。印度并没有理由向中国开战,当时我们在喜马拉雅山区缺少公路设施,我们的士兵装备不良,穿着帆布鞋去打仗。如果尼赫鲁想发动战争,他至少会好好装备一下军队。

navneetkumarbakshi

Hahaha Xiyangyang- Fifty years after the war, we are getting to know the Chinese part of the story and that too because of free exchange of information through internet and because chance has made us friends So let's accept the things as they are. These border issues are really complicated. I don't know what was MacMohn's interest in drawing a line on the map and what were the basis of drawing such lines. The disputed terrain is just a mass of frozen rocks. I think at least such places in the world should be marked as free zones as they can be of interest only to the mountaineers and explorers

哈哈,战后50年,我们了解了中国方面的说法,这要归功于互联网上的自由交流,我们有幸成为了朋友 过去的事情就让它过去吧。边界问题非常复杂。我不知道麦克马洪怎么会有兴趣在地图上划一条线,他划线的根据是什么。存争议的领土只是些荒凉地区,应该将其设为自由进入的地区,毕竟只有登山家和探险家才会对这些地方有兴趣 </SPAN>

Ocean

nevneet JI:

when I see the word Shimla and 1962, I know you put your hand into a hornet nest. just wait and see what will happen.

Navneet

当我一看到西姆拉和1962年这些词,我就知道你捅了马蜂窝

navneetkumarbakshi

Hello Ocean,

I had written a long reply to you but sadly I lost it before I could save it. I am enjoying the comments. After reading so many of those from my learned readers, I think I am not fit to reply to their comments. Their passionate replies give me a feel of how touchy the Chinese are about this war which I am sure most of the Indians don't even remember. I am sure if you put any questions to the Indian children on this war in their exam, they will fail. Before this I never heard the views of any Chinese on this war. War happen because of a sequence of events, belligerence and rather inability of the politicians to resolve the issue through a sensible dialogue and as a result so many precious lives are lost.

Navneet

我给你写了一条长长的回复,遗憾未能保存。看了很多博学读者留下的评论后,我想自己并不适合回复他们。他们的情绪让我觉得中国人对这场战争过敏了,而大多数印度人甚至不记得发生了什么。要是在试卷上给印度孩子出几道相关题目,我想他们会答不上来的。此前,我从未听说过中国人对这场战争的看法。一系列事件导致了这场战争的发生,政客好战,无力通过理智对话来解决问题,结果许多宝贵的生命失去了。</SPAN>

Panda Warrior

I studied 1962 war in sparetime since 2008.Both China and Iindia told its own stories.Having read and analysed many materials from various sources,I agree with chinese government much more on 1962 war,though I know that chinese government has a lower credibility in genernal.

It is naive to take it for granted that Indian government is more truthful on every subject.

自从2008年以来,我有在课余时间研究1962年中印战争。中国和印度都各执一词。分析了很多来自不同渠道的资料后,我更加认同中国政府有关这场战争的说法,虽然我知道中国政府的可信度通常较低。

如果想当然地认为印度政府在每个方面都更值得信赖,那是幼稚的。

navneetkumarbakshi

Hello Panda Warrior- You seem to have read a lot on the war that happened more than fifty years ago. In general the credibility of any government is low because they only tell half truths i.e. they tell only that part of the story that suits their interests. No government in it's right mind will say anything inimical to it's interests. All that I would like to say is that it was stupid of both the neighbours to go in to a war which proved nothing, caused huge loss of lives on both sides. I hope now sanity prevails and we can work together for mutually benefiting projects.

Navneet

你似乎大量阅读了有关50年前这场战争的资料。总之,任何国家政府的可信度都是低的,他们只会告诉你一半的真相,比如告诉你符合他们利益的部分。任何正常的政府都不会道出违背其利益的真相。我想要说的是,邻国之间开战是愚蠢之举,根本就毫无意义,双方都造成大量人员伤亡。</SPAN>

ashualec

Eventually people specially responsible citizens should see that war does not bring anything more than tears, destruction and hatred. People should let go of past and start a new life everyday. Thinking about past creates blockages.

So best is that we should appreciate and admire the sentiment of a 10 year old child for you sailor uncle which is nothing but honest admiration.

最终人们特别是有责任感的公民应该看到战争不能带来任何东西,只会带来眼泪,家园被摧毁,积下仇恨。人们应该放下过去,开启新的生活。纠缠于过去会无形之中带来阻碍。

navneetkumarbakshi

Thanks Ashu,

How could I miss to reply to such a sensible comment. I was wondering why the count of my comments is 'odd', It should be even if I had replied to all the comments, Now that mystery is solved

我怎么会忘记回复如此理智的留言。我还在纳闷呢,怎么我的评论数是“奇数”,如果我回复了所有评论,那么应该是偶数啊。这个谜团现在揭开了 </SPAN>

DSampath

you have talked about very controversial topics in very

nice way and that has given a glimpse of the psyche of a Chinese boy.

enjoyed ...

Navneet

你以非常美好的方式讨论了颇具争议的话题,让我们一瞥了中国男孩的内心世界。

navneetkumarbakshi

Thanks Sampath Ji- There was no point of raking up old issues and I had to tell that child how I felt and all what I knew about the unfortunate war.

谢谢,重提老问题毫无意义。我只是把自己的感受和对那场不幸战争的了解告诉那位孩子。</SPAN>

PS:原文发表于三泰虎

本文内容于 2014/1/16 11:21:55 被c928983929编辑

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1962年10月,印度当局错误地估计形势,在大国支持下,向我发动了大规模的武装进攻。我西藏、新疆边防部队被迫进行自卫还击。这次自卫还击战,在中印边境东段和西段进行。从1962年10月20日开始,至11月21日基本结束,历时1个月,经历了两个作战阶段。

第一阶段,自10月20日至28日。主要反击方向为克节朗——达旺地区。战前,印军在东段和西段的兵力为1个军部、1个师部、4个旅部、21个步兵营,约22000人。我军投入作战的部队有:西藏边防部队4个多团、新疆边防部队1个多团和昌都、林芝、山南分区的部队。在克节朗方向,我军根据印军布势前重后轻、翼侧暴露、正面宽、纵深浅的特点和地形情况,采取了从两翼开刀,迂回侧后,包围分割,各个歼敌的战法。自20日上午7时30分开始反击至当天下午,便大部歼灭了该地印军。接着,分兵5路,齐头并进,乘胜追击,于24、25日,先后进驻车新桥、达旺等地。在西段地区,我军于20日8时25分对入侵加勒万河谷和红山头之敌发起反击,经1小时战斗,全歼该敌。21日乘胜扩张战果,至23日便全部扫除了班公湖两岸及其以北地区的31个印军据点。随即挥戈南下,反击巴里加斯地区之敌,歼其一部。昌都、林芝、山南分区部队,也于10月20日实施反击,先后拔除敌据点多处,进占易古通、马尼岗、塔克新和哥里西娘等地。第一阶段作战至此便告一段落。

第二阶段,自11月16日至21日,主要反击方向为西山口——邦迪拉地区和瓦弄地区。战前,印度当局从全国各地调兵遣将,使东西两段总兵力增至3万人。我军投入作战的兵力也增加到13个多团并一部分炮兵。在西山口至邦迪拉方向,我军根据印军布势特点,以部分兵力反击西山口,打敌之头;以部分兵从两翼夹击申隔宗、略马东,击敌背腹;另以部分兵力实施远距离、大纵深的迂回、直插德让宗、邦迪拉之间,断敌退路。这样,便形成了对西山口、德让宗地区之敌的多路向心合击,经1天激战,我军占领西山口、德让宗、申隔宗,歼灭印军一部。19日,占领邦迫拉,并于略马东地区围歼近千名逃敌。

尔后,主力即在西山口至邦迪拉地区展开搜剿,一部分兵力继续向南追击,于21日进占吉莫山口、比里山口和鹰窠山口一线。在瓦弄方向,我军一部于16日晨发起反击,歼敌一部,印军第4军军长和第11旅旅长仓皇逃走。我军在当天下午即占领瓦弄,一部就地搜剿,另一部分兵向南追击,至21日,先后进至萨木维尔和金古底,逼近传统习惯线。在西段地区,我军于11月18日至20日,清除了残存在我境内班公洛地区的6个印军据点,歼灭大部守敌。在东段中部,我军也于11月18日开始反击,先后拔除印军据点16处,歼敌一部。1962年11月22日零时。中国军队遵照毛泽东主席的命令,在中印边界全线停火。


印度人当年到底哪来的勇气我也不知道,但我知道的是印度一直支持藏独,如果印度对中国西藏没兴趣,你支持一个分裂政府干什么呢?如果中国支持印共,不知道印度人作何感想。

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