国外网民热议:为什么西方希望中国失败?

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导读:除非中国失败,他们终将超过我国,并且开始全球议程的设置。被一个非白人的国家超越,我感到特别难过。 译文来源:原文链接: 正文翻译:I live in america, so im part of the "west" but it seems like the west wants china to fail economically so much...i much rather have china as a superpower then any western nation, becau

除非中国失败,他们终将超过我国,并且开始全球议程的设置。被一个非白人的国家超越,我感到特别难过。 译文来源:原文链接:http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=114&t=129165 正文翻译:I live in america, so im part of the "west" but it seems like the west wants china to fail economically so much...i much rather have china as a superpower then any western nation, because they aren't really enticed into meaningless conflicts, and only want to have trade with countries, and arn't really interventionalist in other countries....我住在美国,所以我是“西方”的一份子,但是看起来西方似乎非常希望中国经济出现问题... ...我希望中国能成为超级大国,而非任何一个西方国家,因为他们不想卷入任何毫无意义的冲突之中,而只是想与各国的进行贸易,并且对其他国家来说,他们是真正的不干涉主义者... ... 评论翻译:politicsman500 wrote:i live in america, so im part of the "west" but it seems like the west wants china to fail economically so much...I don't know how Obama really thinks about this, I mean for Chinese, but if Chieses fail economically, billions of Chinese will starve. China will become one of the poorest country in the world. And all the human right things will be forgot...i much rather have china as a superpower then any western nation, because they aren't really enticed into meaningless conflicts, and only want to have trade with countries, and arn't really interventionalist in other countries....Correct. It is becuase the nation character, I guess. I don't know whether it is a proper example, but Asian Americans have lower crime rate. There are many reasons, but I think one reason is that they are so militant. So chinese don't like to involve other's business, and they don't like judge anyone. It is just a different culture.politicsman500写道:“我住在美国,所以我是“西方”的一份子,但是看起来西方似乎非常希望中国经济出现问题... ...”我不知道奥巴马的真实想法是什么,我的意思对于中国来说,如果中国的经济状况失败了,十几亿的人就会挨饿。 中国将会成为世界上最穷的的国家之一。 所有的人权问题都会抛诸脑后... ...“我希望中国能成为超级大国,而非任何一个西方国家,因为他们不想卷入任何毫无意义的冲突之中,而只是想与各国的进行贸易,并且对其他国家来说,他们是真正的不干涉主义者... ...”正确。 我猜这是由于民族的性格使然。 我不知道这个例子是否恰当,但是亚裔美国人的犯罪率较低。 原因有很多,但我认为原因之一是因为他们是如此激进(译者注:这段话应该少写了个not)。 所以,中国人不喜欢干涉别人的事情,他们不喜欢充当裁判员。 他们的文化和我们的不同。[hr]It's probably because China's development proves that western theroy is not perfect and universal.Or we can say that western society has weakness and can be overpassed.可能正是由于中国的发展证明,西方的理论并非是完美的也并非是通用的。 或者我们可以说,西方社会有弱点,可能被超越。[hr]Potemkin [ + ]Quote:Correct. It is becuase the nation character, I guess. I don't know whether it is a proper example, but Asian Americans have lower crime rate. There are many reasons, but I think one reason is that they are so militant. So chinese don't like to involve other's business, and they don't like judge anyone. It is just a different culture.One word: Confucianism.引用:正确。 我猜这是由于民族的性格使然。 我不知道这个例子是否恰当,但是亚裔美国人的犯罪率较低。 原因有很多,但我认为原因之一是因为他们是如此激进。 所以,中国人不喜欢干涉别人的事情,他们不喜欢充当裁判员。 他们的文化和我们的不同。一个字:儒[hr]KFlint [ + ]politicsman500, you seem to have that a bit backwards. China is engaged in a full out economic war with America and in that we want them to fail. Should China be able to grow on its own, without taking what avenues that the USA has, then God bless them.politicsman500,你似乎有点胳膊肘朝外拐。 中国正与美国进行一场激烈的经济战争,我们当然希望他们失败。中国能全凭它自己的力量,不采用美国的模式实现其经济增长吗,上帝保佑他们。[hr]greencement [ + ]Well, KFlint, I think that the "avenues that the USA has" is just available for US.There is only one US in the world, so is China.No one can copy other's develpment method in the world, because no one can copy other's history.US's history is unique, because you cannot find a new continent on this planet at least.China's history is unique, because no one else has such a long history and tradition.It's hard to understand each other, because our natural resources cannot support two countries like US.It's the limited resourses that make us become rivals.Or we can say that our desires make us become rivals.Just accept it.那么,KFlint,我认为,“美国模式”仅对美国有效。 在世界上只有一个美国,也只有一个中国。 这个世界上,没有人可以复制其他人的发展方式,因为没有人可以复制对方的历史。 美国的历史是独一无二的,因为至少,你不能在这个星球上找到另一块新的大陆。 中国的历史也是独一无二的,因为没有其他国家拥有这样的悠久历史和传统。要彼此理解很难,因为我们的自然资源不能支撑两个美国这样的国家。 正是资源的有限性使得我们成为了对手。 或者我们可以说,我们的欲望使得我们成为对手。 那么就要接受这个事实。[hr]Potemkin [+]Quote:politicsman500, you seem to have that a bit backwards. China is engaged in a full out economic war with America and in that we want them to fail. Should China be able to grow on its own, without taking what avenues that the USA has, then God bless them.China is a revanchist power. The world has already been divvied up between the dominant powers many times in the past, and America has received the lion's share (most notably after WWII and after the collapse of the Soviet union ). Any rising power with ambitions to rival America in wealth and global influence therefore has no choice but to deprive the currently dominant world powers of at least some of their current hegemony. The question is, will America (and Europe, among others) move aside peacefully or not?引用:politicsman500,你似乎有点胳膊肘朝外拐。 中国正与美国进行一场激烈的经济战争,我们当然希望他们失败。 中国能全凭它自己的力量,不采用美国的模式实现其经济增长吗,上帝保佑他们。中国是一个想要雪耻的国家。 这个世界在过去被强权国家瓜分过多次,美国获得了大部分的份额(尤其是二战之后,和苏联解体之后)。 因此,任何一个拥有野心的崛起中的国家,要与美国争夺财富和全球影响力,那么它别无选择,要么把目前占主导地位的世界大国拉下马,要么至少剥夺一些它们目前的支配权。问题是,美国(和欧洲,还有其他国家)会和平地交出权力吗?[hr]KFlint [ + ]Greencement wrote:Well, KFlint, I think that the "avenues that the USA has" is just available for US.Not true. China is approaching all our trade partners and brokering deals as a middle man to get around our trade and making those same partners sign agreements saying they will not use US currency while doing any international trade. This takes away from the USA.At the same time China is claiming a default on Americas debts that they hold with claims of a devalued dollar, a situation that they created. Their solution is demanding land in America free of american laws....Potemkin, maybe but they are going about it byway of attack and there are otherways. They have plenty of workers to hire out, tech to sell and exports to trade to get the resources that they need. They can do all of that without engaging in other practices.The role they are playing in the SCS at the moment show that they will try to take what they want, regardless of the situation. China is far from peaceful, so why should the international reaction be any differGreencement写道:那么,KFlint,我认为,“美国模式”仅对美国有效。 事实并非如此。 中国以中间人的身份接近我们所有的贸易伙伴和经纪交易,游说我们的贸易伙伴与他们签署合作协议,让他们在任何的国际贸易中不再使用美元进行交易。 使得他们远离美国。与此同时,中国通过声明美元的贬值(这种状况是他们制造出来的),不再对履行他们手中持有的美元债券的义务。 他们的解决方案就是通过美国的法律合法地要求美国的土地....他们有大量工人出租,出售高科技和出口贸易以获得他们所需的资源。 通过上述行动他们就能够得偿所愿。他们此时在南海所扮演的角色表明他们会尽一切可能得到他们想要的,而不考虑局势的影响。中国不是什么和平的国家,所以为什么要国际社会的反应有所不同呢?[hr]Quote:Potemkin, maybe but they are going about it byway of attack and there are otherways. They have plenty of workers to hire out, tech to sell and exports to trade to get the resources that they need. They can do all of that without engaging in other practices.My point is that no matter what methods they use to develop their nation's status in the world, they will inevitably be reducing America's (and the West in general's) relative status in the world. This is what happens when a revanchist power arises in a world which has already been divvied up between the leading powers - the others have to squeeze up to make room for the newcomer. They are inevitably not going to be happy about that.引用:他们有大量工人出租,出售高科技和出口贸易以获得他们所需的资源。 通过上述行动他们就能够得偿所愿。我的观点是, 无论他们用什么方法来发展自己的民族在世界上的地位 ,都将不可避免地导致美国(和一般意义上的西方国家)在世界上的相对地位的降低。 这就是当一个想要雪耻的国家崛起的时候可能会发生的事,而这个世界已经被各主要大国瓜分殆尽——这就要求屋子里的人给新来者腾出位置。那么原先屋子里的人难免会不高兴的。[hr]fuser [ + ]It just seems that USA need some sort of Paranoia to carry on.First it was Communists/Soviet union then terrorists and now they are already readying China to take that place..似乎美国一直需要某种偏执的想法。首先是共产主义/苏联,然后是恐怖分子,现在他们已经准备好迎接中国的到来了.. [hr]Potemkin [ + ] Quote:It just seems that USA need some sort of Paranoia to carry on.First it was Communists/Soviet union then terrorists and now they are already readying China to take that place..You've just described the history of Europe for the past thousand years or so - rival powers jostling for position. America is unused to this, due to its geographical isolation from the rest of the world, and its corresponding isolationist ideology. You seem to take it personally, and feel a need to demonise your rivals. This is a dangerous tendency.引用:似乎美国一直需要某种偏执的想法。首先是共产主义/苏联,然后是恐怖分子,现在他们已经准备好迎接中国的到来了..你刚才所描述的在过去1000年左右的欧洲历史——竞争对手争夺王位。 由于美国地理位置上对于外部世界的隔绝,和其相应的孤立主义思想,美国不再是这样了。 你的想法太个人化,认为有必要妖魔化你的对手。 这是一个危险的趋势。[hr]tailz [ + ]Going by my experience, the atmosphere is not one of wanting China to fail, but a desire for a level playing field in trade between China and the world. The mentality that the west wants China to fail comes from Nationalists in China and Western (mainly American) nationalists who see each others manipulation of trade and manufacturing as a threat to their own development and nationalist pride/glory.Western Nations see China's manipulation of its economic conditions (low wages,low value of the Chinese dollar) as a blatant creation of beneficial export environment for China, which in turn harms Western business that can't compete because China's cost of production is artificially low.If Western countries introduce tariffs to help local manufacturers against cheep Chinese made goods, China sees that as unfair trade practices targeting China - which is ironic for China to complain about given its own manipulation.But if China does not maintain its artificial economic conditions, development will slow as wages will rise and exports will slow as the level playing field will mean that Chinese goods will be on par (cost wise) as goods made elsewhere. Thus because China is bankrolling its modernization on its power to export goods, its needs to maintain its artificial economic conditions which puts it at odds with Western business that are at the whims of the economic trade winds. Thus any rumbling from the West about this, is seen by Chinese nationalists as an attack on China and a desire to see China fail because opening Chinese business up to the volatile trade winds will slow growth and development.Again, nations show that self interest and double talk are the name of the game. Blame them for doing, what your doing too.以我的感觉,西方并不希望中国失败,而是希望在贸易领域同中国和世界公平竞争。 西方希望中国失败的心态,来自于中国的民族主义者和西方(主要是美国)的民族主义者,他们都视对方操纵贸易,对方的制造业威胁了本国的发展,以及出于民族的自豪感/荣耀感。西方国家认为中国人为地操纵其经济环境(通过低工资,低估人民币的价值),为其出口创造有利条件,这反过来损害了西方的商业利益,无法与中国展开竞争,这是因为中国的生产成本被人为压低了。如果西方国家通过进口关税以帮助本地制造业者对抗中国制造的话,中国将之视为对自己的不公平的贸易做法——具有讽刺意味的是,中国所抱怨的正是他们自己的手法。但是,如果中国不人为地保持其经济环境的话,那么在一个公平的环境下,他们的发展将会减速,工资将会上升,出口将会放缓。这就意味着,中国的产品(从成本来看)将会和其他地方生产的一样。因此,中国为了通过出口产品为其现代化注入资金,它就需要人为地维持其经济环境,这使得中国与西方贸易时保持优势。因此,任何从西方传来的聒噪声,在中国民族主义者看来都是对中国的攻击,和对中国失败的渴望,因为在这个贸易风向的不确定的环境下,中国商业开放将导致中国的经济成长放缓。再次,国家都是维护自身利益的,双向对话就是这个游戏的名字。责怪别人这么做的同时,你自己也在这么做。[hr]Chill [ + ]tailz wrote:which is ironic for China to complain about given its own manipulation.tailz wrote:Blame them for doing, what your doing too.There you go. US complain about China's manipulation while US is the biggest manipulator. Doesn't that sound ironic too? It should be more ironic given US complains much more than China.tailz写道:具有讽刺意味的是,中国所抱怨的正是他们自己的手法。tailz写道:责怪别人这么做的同时,你自己也在这么做。正如你说的。美国抱怨中国操纵贸易而美国却是最大的贸易操纵者。这听起来是不是也很讽刺?更讽刺的是,美国对此的抱怨要比中国多得多。(译者注:这个Chill的头像是周杰伦。)[hr]tailz [ + ]Chill wrote:There you go. US complain about China's manipulation while US is the biggest manipulator. Doesn't that sound ironic too? It should be more ironic given US complains much more than China.Chill... my comment "Blame them for doing, what your doing too" applies to both China and America. Your knee jerk response displays your political protectionism for the Chinese point of view. The point of view I wrote in my comment was a critical critique of both China and America, so why did you see it as critical of China and not America?Chill写道:正如你说的。美国抱怨中国操纵贸易而美国却是最大的贸易操纵者。这听起来是不是也很讽刺?更讽刺的是,美国对此的抱怨要比中国多得多。Chill... ... 我的评论“责怪别人这么做的同时,你自己也在这么做”适用于中国也适用于美国。你的本能反应显示了你对于政治上的贸易保护主义的中国立场。我所写的评论的观点是对中国和美国这二者做法的批评,那么,为什么你认为是在批评中国而非美国呢?[hr]Chill [ + ]tailz wrote:so why did you see it as critical of China and not America?So why do you see my comment as critical of America but not China?I clearly pointed out both America and China's behavior is ironic and I clearly said 'there you go'.However, when I say America is more ironic than China, what you can see is I only criticized America and didn't mention China at all.Doesn't that show 'your political protectionism for the American point of view'?None of us here is completely unbiased. It's pointless to argue one is unbiased while another is. It is also pointless to argue one is less biased than another.tailz写道:那么,为什么你认为是在批评中国而非美国呢?那么,为什么你把我的评论看做是批评美国而非中国?我清楚地指出,美国和中国的行为都很讽刺,我也清楚说了“他们那些行为值得讽刺”。然而,当我说到美国做得比中国更具讽刺意味的时候,你看到的是我只在批评美国,对中国视而不见。这难道不是在展示你的美国视角上的政治贸易保护主义吗?我们这里没有人可以完全不带偏见。争论某人没有偏见而某人有偏见这是毫无意义的。争论某人的偏见比其他人少同样是毫无意义的。 [hr][hr]

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