[原创]美国人对中日关系和中国防空识别区的评论

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这两天环球这边翻译贴很热闹啊,楼主也来凑凑热闹,嘿嘿嘿!楼主四级险过,各位战友们要拍砖也要清点噢 !!!!

Opinion: China strikes balance between sovereignty and stability

观点:中国在主权和(国际局势)稳定之间的平衡

By Shen Dingli, Professor at Institute of International Studies at Fudan University, Shanghai

November 29, 2013 -- Updated 0521 GMT (1321 HKT)

这篇文章是通过上海复旦大学国际问题研究所的教授——沈丁立讲述而成。

November 29, 2013 -- Updated 0521 GMT (1321 HKT)

2013年11月29日——更新0521 GMT(1321时)

(PS:这篇新闻是CNN采访沈丁立教授后所写的)

Editor's note: Shen Dingli is a professor and associate dean of the Institute of International Studies at Fudan University in Shanghai. The opinions in this article are solely those of Shen Dingli.

编者语:沈丁立教授是上海复旦大学国际研究学院的副院长,这篇文章中的意见是完全沈丁立所述。

(CNN) -- Since President Xi Jinping assumed power, he's reshaped China's foreign policy by recalibrating its stresses on sovereignty and stability, what the Chinese call wei quan and wei wen.

(美国有线电视新闻网CNN)——自从习总上台后,他重塑了中国的外交政策,并且重新调整和强调了主权及其稳定性,也就是中国人所说的主权和维稳。

On the one hand, China has stepped up its emphasis on sovereignty, especially concerning its territorial dispute with Japan over the Diaoyu Islands (or the Senkakus, as they're known in Japan). 

一方面,中国已经加紧强调了自己的主权,尤其是与日本有着领土争端的钓鱼岛(钓鱼者在日本被称为尖阁列岛)。

Beijing has streamlined its various maritime agencies to make them more efficient and better coordinated, and it keeps sending government vessels to the area to demonstrate its jurisdiction over this region. 

北京已经精简了各种海事机构,以便让他们能更有效、更协调地工作,而且不断派遣政府船舶展示中国在这一地区(钓鱼岛海域)的管辖权。

READ: China flies fighter jets into air defense zone

阅读:中国派遣战斗机进入防空识别区

More recently, it announced a new Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) in the East China Sea to assure its sovereign security over territory, territorial water and space in the ADIZ.

最近,中国宣布了一项新的东海防空识别区(有关领海和空间的防空识别区),在东海保证其主权和领土安全。

On the other hand, China has attached more importance to its peripheral stability.  Despite its earlier skirmish over Ladakh with India in May, it cut a border defense co-operation agreement with New Delhi, to avoid mutual tailing between their patrols in border areas where there is no common understanding of the line of actual control.

另一方面,中国也越来越重视周边的稳定性。 虽然在藏南地区与印度有领土争端,但是中国将拟定一个与新德里的边防合作协议,以避免双方在边境巡逻地区的摩擦。

And recently, President Xi and Premier Li Keqiang visited five out of 10 ASEAN countries, and wrapped up a cooperative deal with Vietnam to jointly develop an oil well in the mouth of the Gulf of Tonkin.  China has also furthered its relations with major powers -- Xi visited Russia and the U.S. within the first three months of coming to power, promoting a "new type of major country relationship."

并且最近,习近平主席和李克强总理访问了东盟10国,以及与越南商议东京湾油井的共同发展,这也将进一步推动中国与周边大国的关系。同时,也访问了俄罗斯和美国,从而促进中国的“新型大国关系”。

However, the quest for sovereignty and stability at the same time could prove challenging.  China's ADIZ announcement is turning into such a case.

然而,在同一时间既维护主权又要保持国际局势的稳定性可是非常具有挑战性的,中国的东海防空识别区就是一个例子。

Origins of the ADIZ

中国防空识别区的起源

he concept and practice of ADIZ are not China's invention. Rather, it was invented by the U.S. in 1951, with a purpose of identifying, through various means, incoming aircraft toward North America.  An ADIZ would usually be much bigger than one's territorial space, to allow sufficient time for such identification. 

中国防空识别区的概念以及实践并不是由中国发明的。相反,它是由美国在1951发明的,一个以确定的目的,并且通过各种手段,来识别前往美国的飞机的防空识别区。它 通常会是一定比例的地域空间,以便有足够的时间来进行这样的识别。

READ: China-Japan dispute: What you need to know

阅读:中国与日本的争议,你需要知道什么?

Last weekend, the Chinese government announced its East China Sea ADIZ, asking foreign military planes flying over this area to identify themselves or, if necessary, the government would take defensive military action to enforce their identification. 

上周末,中国政府宣布它的东海防空识别区,要求外国军用飞机飞越该地区时表明自己的身份,或者,如果有必要的话,政府会采取防御性的军事行动来证明他们的身份。 

It is noted that the ADIZ is a national mandate, rather than demanded by any international law.  Therefore, any other country has to make its own sovereign choice to follow or not.

值得注意的是,防空识别区是由某个国家授权的,而不是国际法的授 。因此,其他任何国家有权对防空识别区进行遵从或是说不。

The establishment of the East China Sea ADIZ looks to be China's latest attempt to stress sovereignty and stability. The purpose of such identification is to assure China's sovereignty over its airspace without disrupting the international law of freedom of flight through international airspace. 

东海防空识别区的建立是中国强调主权和稳定性的最新尝试,它的目的是确保中国的领空权,并且不破坏国际领空方面的国际法。

Obviously, China is able to identify those foreign civilian airlines which routinely fly to and from China. China will also be able to monitor and identify some foreign military aircraft flying over this zone. Establishing such a zone would allow China, ideally, additional time to predict if some of the flights over the area would be harmful and, consequently, if its defense establishment should take precautionary measures.

很明显,中国能用这种方法识别经常往返中国的外国民用航空飞机,并且中国也能够在这一地区监视外国的一些军用飞机。建立这样一个区(东海防空识别区),能使中国用一些额外的时间来预测某个航班是否对中国有害。因此,东海防空识别区是中国国防建设的必要措施。

Challenge to status quo?

(东海防空识别区是)对现有局势的挑战?

As establishing an ADIZ is a national endeavor rather than one mandated by international law, it is predictable other stakeholders could view it a challenge to the status quo, which suits their national interests.

建立防空识别区是一个国家的规定,不需要国际法的要求,其他利益相关者可能会认为这是对现有局势的挑战(这符合他们的国家利益)。

Soon after China's ADIZ was announced, the U.S. sent two B-52 bombers into the new air zone on what the U.S. says was a pre-planned trip. It is understood that the U.S. strategic bombers neither loaded bombs nor were escorted by jet fighters, and didn't go too close to China's territorial space, signaling that the mission was not intended as a military threat. 

中国宣布建立放别识别区不久后,美国派出了两架B-52轰炸机到这一地区,并且说“这是预先计划好的旅行”。 据了解,美B-52并没有装载炸弹,也没有太接近中国的领空,这表明此次任务不是军事威胁。 

Such a restrained challenge seems to have led China to properly balance its quest for sovereignty and stability.

如此温和的“威胁”似乎是要告诉中国应妥善处理好主权和(国际局势)稳定性之间的平衡。

If and when China's newly declared ADIZ is truly challenged, as long as China could identify the incoming foreign aircraft and manage the challenge to a certain degree, China would not send aircraft to "greet" them.  But certainly, if the incoming foreign aircraft did not respond to China's query of identity, and if China detected a threatening posture, its air force would act in a defensive way.

如果中国新近宣布的防空识别区是一个真正的威胁,那么只要中国能够确定进入的飞机是对主权的挑战,就不会派飞机“迎接”他们 。当然,如果进入的外国飞机没有回应中国对他们身份的询问,并且中国检测到威胁性的话,中国空军会立即采取防御手段。

hough the U.S. has presented its challenge to China establishing such a zone, the country's ADIZ may have more to do with Japan

虽然美国认为东海防空识别区具有挑战性,但东海防空识别区更多的是针对日本。

Japan's own ADIZ has been as close as to 130 kilometers from China, and includes the Diaoyu, or Senkaku, Islands.  If China's inclusion of Diaoyu Islands is intolerable to Japan due to their dispute over this area, Japan's inclusion of the same islands, some four decades ago, has much earlier provoked a similar degree of irritation.

日本的防空识别区距离中国(浙江)仅130公里,还包括了钓鱼岛(或者说尖阁群岛)。如果日本将中国的钓鱼岛纳入防空识别区是中国难以忍受,那么早在4年前将引起了非常激烈的反应。

。Japan's establishment of its ADIZ was a breach of the status quo at that time. Japan further pushed the envelope last year by "nationalizing" the main islands, representing another effort to break the existing status quo.  Its persistent changing of the status quo cannot go unchallenged.

日本建立防空识别区在当时来说是违约的,而且日本去年进一步“国有化”钓鱼岛,代表着日本又一次打破了现状,这种是中国无法忍受的 。

China's efforts to strike a balance between sovereignty and stability are destined to be difficult. However, facing increasing security challenges, Beijing is likely to respond in kind, while abiding by international law.

中国想要在维护主权和国际局势稳定性之间保持平衡是非常困难的。然而,面对日本剧增的安全挑战,北京方面会在遵守国际法的前提下做出回应。

READ: Japan defies China's air defense zone

阅读:日本无视中国的防空识别区

The opinions in this article are solely those of Shen Dingli, a professor and associate dean of the Institute of International Studies at Fudan University in Shanghai.

这篇文章中的意见是完全上海复旦大学的国际研究学院副院长沈丁立所述。

(以上就是正文了,,PS:CNN强调了“此文是由沈丁立教授所述”三次,这代表着它是在强调这种观点是中国人的,并不是代表CNN的,楼主怎么看怎么又这种意思)

现在开始美国网友的评论:

peaceusino

Many people just think bad on China when it created ADIZ without realizing that Japan estiblished its ADIZ long time ago. Just like they feel bad when China has a fence but they feel fine that Japan has a fence.

(有129个顶,16个踩)

很多人只是觉得坏就坏在中国建立了东海防空识别区,但没有意识到日本的防空识别区已经建立很久了。就像是他们不高兴中国有了“篱笆”,却对日本的“栅栏”感觉十分良好。(PS:此网友的评价十分客观。)

calmpalm(回复peaceusino

-"they feel bad when China has a fence but they feel fine that Japan has one" because peaceful Japan has never ever invaded China in human history. lol!

(有56个顶,8个踩)

“就像是他们不高兴中国有了“篱笆”,却对日本的“栅栏”感觉十分良好”,大声笑!因为日本有一个从未侵略过中国的人类历史。

Harry Hirsch(回复calmpalm

who cares about 100 years ago...now in 2013...It is China that wants Islands fro mSouth Korea, Japan, Vietnam and the Philipines. ..its about that

(有70个顶,11个踩)

谁关心100年前……现在在2013……是中国想要从韩国,日本,越南和菲律宾手上抢夺岛屿。

Leo(回复Harry Hirsch

Cool so in 40 years Tibet can no longer say they want to be Independent because who cares about what happenend 100 years ago.

(有19个顶,2个踩)

40年前XZ那么酷想要独立,现在还说吗?谁还会在乎100年前的事情?

RBC1234567890(回复Leo

No one gave a damn about these islands until petroleum was found.

This is a resource war, pure and simple.

All the historical claims, nationalism and the rest of the propaganda is nothing more than whipping up a frenzy in order to get the resources. It is about money and greed on both sides.

China routinely whips out the argument that because at some point in the last 3000 some leader from some part of what is now the geographic area of China occupied an area. In some cases the claims are based on invasions and occupations that lasted less than a centurey before the areas were recaptured by their indigenous peoples or by other countries and empires. It is all about the politics of hurt feelings and it is almost always a game about resources, greed or both.

The reality is that all of the countries involved in this mess are behaving like silly spoilt children and many of the arguments are what you would expect from a 5 year old.

(有29个顶,3个踩)

在这些岛屿上的石油被发现以前,谁TM要这些岛屿。

这是一个纯粹而简单的资源战争。

所有的历史事件,民族主义以及宣传无非都是煽动人民,为了获得这些资源,这是关于金钱和贪婪的事情。

(额,有一段没看懂,等楼主屡屡思绪,明天补上)

现实情况是,所有参与这个争论的国家,都像是一个愚蠢的被宠坏的5岁孩子。

Kelvin(回复RBC1234567890

it's true that the economic value of the islands is one reason both sides are fighting for, but from the pure historical point of view, China has its people first discovered and claimed sovereignty of these islands much earlier than the Japanese do.

Just for your additional info, after World War 2, the Cairo Declaration stated clearly that all Japan occupied Chinese territory must be returned to China and at the same time, according to Postdam Declaration, Japanese sovereignty is limited to Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu and Shikoku ONLY, not even including Okinawa. So, technically speaking Okinawa also does not belong to today's Japan. The reason that Japan claims Okinawa is because the US has allowed it for the right of administration.

(有9个顶)

这是真的,该群岛(钓鱼岛)的经济价值是双方争夺的一个原因,但单纯从历史的角度来看,是中国人比日本人先发现这些岛屿,并且中国人宣布对这些岛屿的主权比日本人早多了。

只回复你的附加信息(RBC1234567890)。2次世界大战后,《开罗宣言》曾明确指出,所有日本占领中国的领土必须归还中国。并且在同一时间,根据《波兹坦宣言》,日本的主权限于本州,北海道,九州和四国,甚至不包括冲绳。因此从法律上说,冲绳也不属于今天的日本。日本声称冲绳是它的领土是因为我们允许日本的行政权的原因。

tennesseetuxedo59(回复RBC1234567890

wrong Japan is the owner and chinacalone is causing problems

(有17个顶,6个踩)

日本是(钓鱼岛)的拥有者和中国是造成这一现象的唯一原因,这种论调是错误的。

tennesseetuxedo59(回复 Kelvin)

your interpretation of these treaties is flawed. nevertheless Japans been in control for decades and china has never been .the matter could be easily settled in court but china refusal indicates fear of the outcome

(有3个踩)

你对这些条约的解释是十分错误的。不是日本控制中国,相反是日本被中国控制了好几十年。这件事情本来很容易就可以在法院解决,但是中国因为恐惧拒绝了。

H K(回复tennesseetuxedo59

US is causing problems since they should just mind their own business on the other side of the globe.

(有10个顶。6个踩)

在地球的另外一边的他们有自己的权利,美国是造成问题的原因。

Ryan G(回复H K

The US has to remain involved in international matters to keep peace and stability. The US has helped to avoid wars from happening.

(有3个顶,4个踩)

美国可以继续参与国际事务,保持世界的和平与稳定,美国有助于避免战争的发生。

Kelvin(回复Ryan G

Not true, what the US government is doing is backing Japan to provoke China. Just like asking your son to provoke other kids while intimidating the kid with your muscle.

(有5个顶)

不对,是美国政府正在支持日本挑衅中国,就像你为了你的孩子恐吓其他孩子,

dreadman82(回复 H K)

Well HK this area is kind of their business, its 2 major allies, US bases and the fact that Japan and Filipines is all that lay between them and an increasingly unfriendly China that seems to think annexing real estate is still in fashion

(有3个踩)

香港这个地区是他们(中国)的领土,美国的两个盟友——日本和菲律宾都与中国越来越不友好,在中国房地产似乎仍然是很受欢迎。

Leo( RBC1234567890)

Though I agree with you.

But that Observation solves nothing.

It just makes China look petty.

Even if China does make some bogus document up, who is to say that is fake?

Anyone disputing the authenticity of that document will be a speculator and a speculation frankly solves nothing.

(有1个顶,5个踩)

这个我同意你。

但是,观察并不能解决任何问题。

它只是让中国看起来微不足道。

即使中国有一些伪造的文件,但谁又能说是假的?

有人争论这个的真实性,投机者将坦率地解决任何问题。

tennesseetuxedo59(回复Leo

japan has possession 90 % of the law who cares about chinas documents

(有8个顶,7个踩)

日本已经拥有90%的律师,谁还关心中国的文件。

H K(回复tennesseetuxedo59)

Japan has no possession rights。

(有6个顶,3个踩)

日本没有占有权。

tennesseetuxedo59(回复H K

they have the deed of ownership china has nothing

(有5个顶,4个踩)

他们已经拥有契约,但中国却什么都没有。

额,楼主本来要补评论的,但是往后面一下,完全是谈中国和西藏的关系了,怕被和谐楼主就木有接着翻译了。

附上楼主的新翻译贴

[铁血社区]我勒个去 BBC引用中国人的评论黑“玉兔”

http://bbs.tiexue.net/post_7003951_1.html


本文内容于 2013/12/3 15:57:11 被陈大哥吃肉编辑

[ 转自铁血社区 http://bbs.tiexue.net/ ]

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3楼wizton

好吧,看看这种肤浅的评论,扣帽子,不乏以最恶揣测中国,却以最善揣测日本,见了鬼。

珍珠港真是没炸醒这里弱货


本文内容于 2013/12/3 13:25:19 被wizton编辑

2次世界大战后,《开罗宣言》曾明确指出,所有日本占领中国的领土必须归还中国。并且在同一时间,根据《波兹坦宣言》,日本的主权限于本州,北海道,九州和四国,甚至不包括冲绳。因此从法律上说,冲绳也不属于今天的日本。日本声称冲绳是它的领土是因为我们允许日本的行政权的原因。

5楼春江

法院解决??那些法官不是美国就是日本的,你当我们中国人傻的???还未进法院门就已经知道结果了!!!

很多东西要拿出来辩!中国政府往把好多东西捂在被窝里!而有的却弄巧成拙!美国人民是善良的,但政客们是没有节操的

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