标题:How well trained are the PLA special forces?



I have been following the special forces on the anti-piracy deployments for a while and even though they are often labelled as special forces, they seem very amateurish compared to the forces from other countries such as SEALS or even the South Korean forces that conducted the hostage rescue last year. Are these forces sent on the anti piracy deployments real special forces or just marine units? Do they reflect the training of special forces in other PLAunits? I'm not talking about swat teams in cities, I am referring to the special forces that perform deep infiltration, recon, etc.




1楼Can you enlighten us on what part of their operation makes you think they are amateurish? Like Popeye has mentioned, none of us has seen details of any of their operations. I know sometimes, subjective feelings toward certain groups can make one "see" things that are not there. I think PLASpecial Ops have won many awards on international Special Ops competitions. Not sure if these things amount to "professional looking" in your opinion though...

你能告诉我为什么你觉得他们业余吗?你能举出例子吗,所以你仅仅是靠主观感觉就认为中国的特种部队实力不行。 实际上解放军特种部队在国际比赛中赢得了许多奖项,不过,我不知道这些在您看来算不算实战行动。

2楼It is fundamentally ridiculous to try and judge the professionalism or effectiveness of combat troops based on appearances.Not even the vaunted SAS looked that smooth or polished during their name making Iranian embassy seize.If you are comparing the PLAspecial forces guys to movie marines, of course you are going to be disappointed. No real life special forces could compare to the CGI enhanced, well choreographed bullet porn you see in films.



3楼While we are on that thought, has anyone watched "Act of Valor"? All the main characters are active-duty Navy SEALs. I haven't got a chance to see yet, but have heard good words about it.


评论2楼:你有没有看过 "Act of Valor"(一部电影)所有的主要角色都是“海豹”现役人员出演,很真实(意思是通过这部影片可以了解特种部队的真实水平)我有时间看一下。

4楼Tone down the aggression man..I was just wondering if anyone knew more than me since I have been unable to find any information on PLAspec ops other than their formation dates. There is hardly any records of real operations. So I was asking whether the training routines that we are seeing are comparable to international standards.


鄙视aggression man(类似于国内喷子)我只是想多了解点信息,他们在国际上出于什么水平(指他发帖的原因)有没有人告诉我。我几乎找不到关于中国特种部队的任何信息。

5楼The 'active duty SEALs' bit put me right off.Having active duty guys take time out of active duty to make a film means the DoD is going to be pulling the strings on this film, and they might as well hand you an enlistment form along with your cinema ticket.From the tailer, it just looks like the film is going to be a feature length recruitment ad where the SEALs kill an improbable number of dutifully incompetent 'bad guys' with the token heroic death to 'keep it real'.


6楼But that's not what and how you asked now was it? Surely I do not need to quote what you wrote back to you for you to see the difference.The South Korean special forces did not see much if any real action until their recent rescue bid, were they more or less amateurish in your eyes before they mounted their raid? Chinese special forces have not been confirmed to have seen real action recently because, surprise surprise, China is not at war with anyone.Besides, the gold standard for special forces is to be in and out without anyone any the wiser. For covert missions to be leaked or even footage/evidence that special forces were deployed would mean someone somewhere screwed up.




7楼But you first specified that you thought the PLASpec Ops was "amateurish" in your 1st post. How and why did you come to the conclusion that the PLASpec Ops was amateurish when you have absolutely no information on their operation, as you admit here?



8楼I can't comment much on this subject, neither do all of us here in this forum. None of us are from inside the PLA, even if some were, still not from the special ops branch. We can only speculate and cannot make assertive assumptions.But one thing certain is that the PLAspecial ops crews don't have as much real combat experience. The best they have done were probably fighting drug smugglers close to Southwestern border or crazy terrorists in the Northwest. But these are more small scale criminals, barely even have guns. Even if they do, they are probably only armed with few bullets, nothing in comparison like those hardcore players in the MiddleEast. Although they are in the Army, they are more like PAP in those situations. Unless another major battle erupts with a neighbouring country, there is no way we will ever find out how effective they are.


但有一件事可以肯定的是,PLA特种部队没有尽可能多的实战经验。 他们所做的可能只是打击西南边境毒品走私或西北地区疯狂的恐怖分子。 但这些都是小规模的犯罪,即使勉强有枪,他们可能也只有几发子弹,和中东地区的恐怖分子比起来差远了。 除非与邻国爆发战争,我们不可能了解他们的真实实力。

9楼I dare say drug smugglers are better equipped and more experienced than Taliban draftees.



10楼I have seen posts on the Chinese sites bragging about how in the ERNA raid competitions, the Chinese team have beaten the Navy SEALS. But the funny thing is, probably most Chinese fans don't know about, that ERNA raid is an amateur competition. If you look at the list of entrants, it includes police, firemen, border guards, and even military academies. If my memory serves me correctly, the only time China won was in 2002, and those sent were all from active special forces. Of course you can win, by comparing a specially trained soldier against amateurs.There was a famous claim on how the Chinese team beat the navy SEAL during that competition, but the funny thing is that they never entered.I can't help but sigh and cover my face, speechless at how good those Chinese fans are at day dreaming and making up fake news.



11楼A lot of them were active military and a few were in the special forces… Even regular police with pistols can handle most of those smugglers.


评论9楼:塔利班的首席教官之一是埃及前特种部队成员阿里·穆罕默德。 他移居到美国,与美国女子结婚,获得了公民权和参军权,如果我没记错的话,他曾经在三角洲部队训练。他偷了很多秘密的培训文件和手册,以帮助训练阿富汗塔利班。 而那些毒品走私分子只是毒枭们的小喽啰,大毒枭都隐藏在金三角深处,因此,即使是普通警察用手枪也可以制服毒品走私分子。

12楼I don't know anything about the operation history of the PLAspecial forces, but you contradict yourself by saying that PLAspecial forces deal mostly with drug smugglers, and then restrict those drug smugglers to only the the small-timers that regular police can handle.Don't you think that extra-territorial operations are *EXACTLY* what Special Forces are created for?


13楼Those drug smugglers in Southeast Asia are very well equipped and highly experienced at fighting conventional battles … Majority of the cases where Western Spec Ops are operating, they look and behave very foreign. even with the beard and local clothing, most of them are still very Caucasian-looking and can be easily spotted. For all we know, the PLASpec Ops could be highly experienced because they very well might be operating all over Asia without anyone knowing. So IMHO, arguing about their effectiveness is pointless.


评论11楼:在东南亚的毒品走私非常猖狂,许多毒枭有自己的军队,已经同几十年政府军打了几十年,这些毒枭源自二战中得中国国民党军队。 到战争结束时,其中许多人决定不回中国去,因此保留了完整的军事单位。 他们走进毒品生意,同时保持其军事单位和战斗能力,因为需要不断地击退地方政府以及敌对毒枭。同中东的恐怖分子比起来,这些东南亚毒枭不仅装备精良,且有良好的组织和战斗经验。而且他们有足够多钱的武装自己。 现在的问题是,我们都不知道任何关于PLA的资料,没有事实。正如沃尔夫所说,规范行动的性质是它的隐蔽性,只是因为我们没有听说过,但并不意味着解放军一直没有行动。有可能是,他们已经成功的完成了多种行动。鉴于中国政府紧闭的嘴唇,即使一些部队已被送往国外执行一些任务,没有人会知道它,因为他们同当地人(亚洲)一样,可以很容易地获得当地人的武器,没有人会知道这件事。 这与大多数西方国家形成鲜明的差异,多数西方人,它们的外观和表现很容易区别。因此,在不了解事实的情况下讨论PLA特种部队没有意义。

13楼Just kinda surprised how much you underestimate druglords. As for your other points about Chinese fanboys making stuff up and making random, pointless comparisons, I agree on that. It's ridiculously immature. I recalled some even comparing them to the SDU about some cross-competitions that they had conducted and then claiming SDU was inferior. They are just so pathetic. I also don't think any types of competitions can ever be used to justify capabilities. The Chinese have demonstrated themselves to be very capable of winning competitions, especially in Olympics or even various other types of competition(SWAT or not)..however anyone who attempts to claim that the Chinese is better/worse simply through competition is losing their touch of reality. It will be just as bad as making conclusions like that TV show Deadliest Warriors(god I hate that show), which is completely invalid. And my final point..even IF there was a way to prove the SEALs to be superior than the SAS, Delta, GIGN, GSG9, KSK, Chinese SOF, JTF2, or anything you can think of, it will also NEVER mean anything. This is simply because GIGN may conduct the Iranian Embassy rescue different from the SAS, and any teams may prove themselves in handling a certain case scenarios and situations better than some other SOFs, which still won't mean the other SOFs are lesser.


14楼on the contrary of most opinions here, going against the flow, i somewhat agree with our friend inzim here

if anything can be used to see how professional a special force/ special operations team is their appearance,

because they are mostly secretive in nature, there is very little information releasedeven amongst military themselves, the only way to get to know each other is through joint training/exercisesphoto ops during training, or photo shoots can show you how well maintained or well equipped one force isthe basic observation logic would be if you have the gear, you have the skill to use it, if you don't then that the skill probably does not exist

we have seen quite a number of so called Chinese spec ops, and i think they are woefully equipped compared not only to NATO/American spec ops, but even to higher tier US regulars like Airborne, army Rangers, or Marinesalso most of the time, like popeye usually laments of, is Chinese shots are staged shots, it would be nice to see some genuine training pics of PLAsofs, like CQCs or marksmanship trainingas to why, there are probably some reason

1. doctrinal challenge from the past

2. no dedicated service branch within the PLA, as we know they are spread out in each MR, as opposed to a single entity(s) under direct PLAsubordination

3. quite numerous in number? as each MR have them

4. probably just regular top tier soldiers 'elevated' to spec ops status to be assigned spec ops missions and tasks, which also the case how other army in the world recruit spec ops, but perhaps lacking in intensity and depth

5. lack of interaction and exposure of NATO/US style training

6. lack of quality firearms, as we know Chinese made small arms and round are still performing below NATO standards










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