美国网民评论《南京!南京!》

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导读:评论翻译:15. Nanking mystery 南京之谜 As there are so many unknowns in Nanking tragedy, no one really knows what happened and how many people were killed. This movie is another version made by the Chinese and as such, it is skewed to the Chinese viewpoint. Ther
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评论翻译:15. Nanking mystery

南京之谜

As there are so many unknowns in Nanking tragedy, no one really knows what happened and how many people were killed. This movie is another version made by the Chinese and as such, it is skewed to the Chinese viewpoint. There are many soldier's diaries and confessions by Japanese soldiers who committed these horrible acts. It will be interesting if the Japanese make a movie based upon their records. The truth of Nanking lies between the two.

在南京惨案中有太多的未知之事,没人确切的知道在那里发生过什么和到底多少人被杀。这部电影是以中国人的视角拍摄的,电影取材角度上倾向于中国。有许多日本兵在战后写下忏悔录跟日记承认他们的兽行。如果日本根据他们的记录拍摄一部电影会很有意思。南京的真相就在这两者之间。

原创评论:http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:nanaqianqian

14. The Rape of Nanking

南京大屠杀

Every generation has its own examples of mans inhumanity to man. What is truly troubling is not are brutal and inhumane is not news; that we do not evolve should be.

– LEForbes, Newport, RI

美国网民评论《南京!南京!》

每一代人都有着自相残杀的历史。真正困扰我们的不是对历史的重现,而是一再为下一代树立负面的榜样。我们从来不去改变自己的行为举止好让下一代有好的榜样。残忍和野蛮很正常,但残忍和野蛮还会继续下去..

13. A classic film, and review errata

經典的電影,提一下影評里的小錯

This is best film I've seen in Chinese cinemas in the several years that I've been here. I consider it not only a classic Chinese film, but a classic of world cinema.

我是我近几年看过的最好的一部中国影片了。我认为这不仅是一部经典的中国电影,也是世界电影史上的一部经典

I'm glad to see the reviewer has good things to say about the film, but I'm not thrilled by the article's headline which makes the film sound like some of extreme torture porn. The reviewer does in the end recognize the work's artfulness as transcending the depraved war crimes which are evoked on the screen in varying degrees. Lu Chuan's artistic strength is virtuosic ally blending the breadth of human experience with the cinematic recreation of the ordeal in Nanking, so that it's much more than a Grand Guignol scenario.

很高兴看到影评者提到这部电影好的方面,但是对标题起得好像极端色情不满意。评论没有认识到影片在屏幕上差异性的表现了超越侵略战争的艺术性。陆川艺术性的展现了在南京那个设定的荧屏上人性的光辉,因此他远远的超过了

Grand Gignol

While reviewers note that the film depicts the humanity and culture of the Japanese Fascists, albeit almost singularly through the lone character of Kadowaka, reviewers are missing that a power of the film is its honesty in recognizing the cowardice and collaborationist tendencies of certain Chinese, thusly humanizing both the aggressors and victims. This is also a major step up from "Schindler's List", another skilled depiction of genocide to which "City of Life and Death" is obviously indebted. The former has the major flaw of depicting the Jewish people as saintly lamb-like innocents and ends up the much more propagandistic of the two films.

虽然评论者注意到,影片几乎只通过Kadowaka这个单独的人物,描述日本法西斯主义下的人和文化,评论缺少对的影片内容诚实的反映描述某些中国人怯懦和叛徒的人格,无论是侵略者和受害者都人性化了.这也是一个对"辛德勒的名单"的提升,"南京南京"显然是另一种对于种族灭局的描写。 前者的主要缺陷是将犹太人描绘成圣洁的羔羊般无辜,并且结束二部影片更多的宣传。

The errata of the review must be addressed, as pointed out by Michael Barnes in "Some problems with this review":

必须指出的影评错误,就像michael barnes说的影评错误一样

1) The misidentified actress in the photo caption is Jiang Yiyan, not Guo Yuanyuan.

剧照的女演员是江一燕而不是高圆圆

2) The scene referred to as "the Chinese surging to escape and the advancing Japanese soldiers who refuse to let them pass" is indeed two groups of Nationalist Chinese soldiers: the former are deserters fleeing the city while the Japanese are still outside the city gates, and the latter are the loyal Chinese troops trying to block the flight of the traitors. It's a rather gross error on the part of the reviewer.

电影中”中国人拼命逃跑而有先进武器的日本兵阻止他们通过”实际上是国民军的2个部队:前者是想逃出城市的逃兵而日本兵就在城外,后者是忠诚的士兵并阻止这些叛徒。这是评论家犯的一个严重错误

3) It's indeed not correct to refer to the scorched earth "Three Alls Policy" as applicable to 1937 Nanking. As Mr. Barnes pointed out, Wikipedia has the information that this is a Chinese Nationalist WWII anti-communist policy applied some years after the 1937 Rape of Nanking. He neglected to say that the Japanese also applied this policy systematically against the Chinese; however, Nanking was not razed; furthermore the policy as attributed to the Japanese followed a few years after the historic Nanjing event of 1937.

它提到了1937年南京才用了焦土政策是不正确的。正如MR BARNES说的,维基上说中国二战中的民族主义者在1937南京大屠杀后采用的。他忽略了日本人为了对付中国人也采用了这一政策;然而,南京没有被夷为平地;这一政策是在日军继南京大屠杀作为附属政策采用了。

In conclusion, while I'm in fundamental agreement with what the reviewer's take on the film , I think the movie deserves criticism from someone who's a bit more educated about modern Chinese history than what's evidenced by references to an Iris Chang book.

总之,我与评论家就这电影产生了共鸣,我想电影需要更多需要熟知中国近代史的人来进行评论而不是只是根据张纯如的书

– Zuo Shou, PR China

12. Correction

更正

Yes, just like Michael Barnes found, the women portrayed in the photo is not played by actress Gao Yuanyuan. Actually it is by actress Jiang Yiyan.

– Shanghai, China

是的,就像michael barnes说的那样,照片中的女人不是演员高圆圆,而是演员江一燕

So what. This few hundred thousand people is nothing. It pale in comparison of what our great beloved Party has done in China. At least 70 million people were sacrifice for the betterment of China by the Communist Party. This reality of having a strong and powerful Party of omnipresence is the current situation in China. China is a great nation because of the great and powerful party. We can kill more Chinese than little Japan!!!

– Poiuy, London, UK

这又如何。这几十万人跟我们亲爱的党干的事比起来根本不算什么。至少7000万人被中共牺牲了。而现状就是这样威武有力和无处不在的政党就存在当今的中国。中国伟大是因为有这样伟大的政党,我们可以比小日本杀更多的中国人。

10. Japan's war policy's were a true example of thinking among the elite.

日本的战争政策值得深思

I've always found it interesting how a feudalistic society forced its self to conform to the what was interpreted as the Wests cultural norms. Though history there is none like it, a culturally isolated people travel over night from the 12th century to the 18th within one generation, From whips to steam, replacing swords with maxim machine guns. Is it no wonder this country had teething problems? (and still does, from a idealized western Christan moral stand point ) .

有趣的是一个封建社会被迫改变自己来满足西方的文化规范。虽然那历史谁都不喜欢,整个国家的一代人一夜之间从12世纪到了18世纪,从马鞭到蒸汽,用机关枪代替了剑。难怪这个国家的人都有牙齿问题(现在也是,一个西方忠实***信徒观点)

In no way am i saying the wests model is the correct "way" to live and govern a country, but looked at from the prospective of a proud warrior ruling class, forced to drug their own people by a strange and giant people, whom looked and smelled so unlike themselves; confronted by technology both terrible and foreign.

I think i can understand how such a people would value the lives of others so little.

Anyways, im sure im muddling my thoughts here.

I will definitely see this movie, and appreciate the writing of the reviewer.

我并不是说西方模式就能正确的治理国家和居住,但是看看武士阶级统治的弊端,用药物迫使人民长成一个看起来都不像他们那样的奇怪而高大的人(说的是相扑),因为恐惧跟外国而改进技术

我想我能理解为什么他们视别人的生命如草芥

不管怎么说,我现在就是在胡言乱语

我肯定会看这部电影,感谢编剧的作家

– Vic Anselmo, Florida

9. It's intense

惨烈

I had the opportunity to see the film in Chinese, and it's pretty intense. I have to say, there are two things that stand out the most in my mind about the massacre- the first was a highly publicized "contest" in Japanese newspapers between two Japanese soldiers who competed to kill 100 Chinese civilians. The contest was so close they decided to make it 200. The second, and really shocking event was the role of the Red Swastika, and the Siemens company that saved upwards of 200,000 people from the Japanese.


我有幸看到这部电影的中文版,太惨烈了。我不得不说,对于这场大屠杀我脑海中有两件事最有代表性——第一个是日本报纸上的2个日本士兵之间的百人斩竞赛。比赛是如此接近,所以他们决定杀200个。第二个震惊的事件就是纳粹德国西门子公司从日本人手里救了200000中国人。

原创评论:http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:nanaqianqian

– Martinmo, Washington, D.C.

8. A Tale of Nanjing Atrocity that Spare No Brutal Details

Stephen Brown likened what happened in Nanjing to what some Americans did in Iraq. The differences are many, e.g. 1. The U.S. government and the American public at large did (and do) not condone the mistreatment of Iraqis; whereas the brutality of the Japanese soldiers was sanctioned by the emperor himself as a reward for having sustained the unyielding resistance by a Chinese officer and the 300 soldiers under him garrisoned in a warehouse for 3 months until they depleted their bullets and provisions, hence delaying the Japanese seizure of Shanghai. 2. The degree, scale and concentration of various forms of bestiality committed by the Japanese soldiers were unparalleled in the mordern annals of human cruelty. Indeed neither Stalin nor Hitler were the equals of the Japanese army in Nanjing. 3. Whatever in their traditions, cultural characteristics and ethical/moral precept that allow for the neutralization of such depravity as normal victor's due is uniquely Japanese. Indeed, today when I meet some Japanese people (I retired from an international organization after 30 years and had the occasion of meeting a number of them) they are behaving with such civility, but when they talk about the war, few expressed any regrets or apology, which leads me to think it is probably a Dr.Jykul and Mr. Hyde syndrome in their national personality. Prime Minister Koizuni felt no compunction in paying homage to Yasukuni shrine where the war criminals were buried. It was obviously supported by the public opinion, for when his successors, to allay resentment expressed particularly by Korea and China, decided not to visit the shrine, they were criticized by the people. Imagine if Germany has put up a memorial for Hitler! The Nanjing Massacre (and the hateful behavior of Japanese occupiers in general) has left such an indelible memory in my generation of Chinese that my kith and kin were incredulous when I tried to encourage them to donate to the Japanese earthquake victims. Having lived through the Sino-Japanese war years as a child, I have many personal experiences I could recount but it would take reams of paper. By the way, to the writer who doubted the authenticity of the story, there are some photographs taken by the Japanes themselves in Iris Change's book (and elsewhere, I remember seeing a smiling Japanese officer with a sword on one hand and the other hand clutching the hair of a severed head published in the Denver Post around the time when Iris Chang's book was published). One could possibly google them.

史蒂芬布朗想把南京发生的事情弄得像美国在伊拉克做过的事情一样。但是区别有很多,例如1:美国政府和大众从来没有为伊拉克事件感到光荣,而日本皇帝自己则对他们士兵的兽行做出了奖赏。一支被奖赏的守备队曾经受到中国士兵持续不断的顽强抵抗,例如300名士兵在一个仓库誓死血战直到3个月后弹尽粮绝。这也因此延缓了上海被占领的时间。2:日本人的暴行,无论在程度,规模还是种类上都是现代人类史上之最。无论媲美斯大林还是希特勒都无法与之相比。3:纵观他们的历史,文化和道德标准,只有日本才会把这些行为当成正常的胜利者应做的事。事实上,今日我见过的一些日本人(我30年前从一家国际组织退休,因此我有机会见到不少日本人)他们的行为举止如此有礼貌,可当他们谈到战争的时候却极少表现出后悔和歉意。这让我觉得他们的民族特性有着双重人格。(注:此处使用的专有名词Dr.Jykul and Mr. Hyde syndrome意为双重人格。参见中译版< <傑柯博士和海德先生>>)日本首相小泉纯一郎在参拜供奉战犯的靖国神社的时候没有感到一次悔。很显然,这是有公众民意支持的,当他的继任者,想要减少尤其来自中国和韩国的愤怒时,决定不参拜靖国神社,却被他们的人民所批评。想想如果德国人建立了一个希特勒纪念馆吧。南京大屠杀(以及日本人总体上的令人厌恶的行为)给和我同一代的中国人留下了难以磨灭的记忆,所以当我动员我的亲戚们给日本地震捐款时他们表现得很怀疑。而且就我个人幼年经历了两次中日战争的经验来说,我有很多话要说,这将花去大量的笔墨去描述。顺便,致某些对这段故事心存怀疑的作者们,Iris Change的书里面有不少日本人自己拍的照片,(我记得其中有一张是一个微笑的日本军官拿着一把插着人头的剑,另一只手紧紧抓人头头发的照片)你们可以去google一下

– c.k.chen, yountville, CA 94599

7. history or rubbernecking

历史或者观光

if it is a question of learning via a film about a particular/singular historical experience, fine. But if it is another instance of reducing understanding to rubbernecking, not fine.

如果能通过电影就能回顾历史,那么好吧。如果只是举个实例来给人浏览观光,那么没用

– henry, san francisco

6. prostitutes?

妓女?

One issue of word choice... the bodies "stacked like wood" were not those of prostitutes, but of (the euphemistically named) comfort women. While there was a Japanese comfort woman who appeared to be willingly offering her services to the Japanese soldiers in the movie, the Chinese (and Korean) women were given no such choice, horrifically raped, and certainly not compensated for their pain. This practice of systematically brutalizing women was one of the immense atrocities that took place during this war and needs to be named correctly.

选词问题……身体像“堆砌的柴木”的那些人不是妓女,而是慰安妇。电影中一个日本慰安妇看起来很愿意给那些日本兵服务,而中国(朝鲜)妇女则是被迫,被强奸而完全不考虑他们的痛苦。在那场战争中被这个有组织的残暴兽行中受伤的女人应该得到正名。

– Cynthia Wu, Pittsburgh, PA

5. Japanese brutality

日本人的兽行

The brutality of the Japanese during WWII cannot be understated. They should be equated to the horrifics of Nazi Germany, or worse. I am glad there are movies and media like this that tries to shed light on an issue that the Japanese wishes to be kept in the dark.

二战中日军的兽行一点都不保守。他们跟纳粹德国那样可怕,甚至更可怕。我很高兴看到电影跟媒体能把日军想永远埋藏的事件曝光。

– Dee, USA

4. Some problems with this review

影评的一些问题

There are some problems with this review:

关于这篇影评的一些问题

1) The woman protrayed in the photo is a prostitute character in the movie, not the John Rabe assistant played by Gao Yuanyuan, as the caption incorrectly states.

文章的标题不正确,照片上的女人不是饰演拉贝秘书的高圆圆

2) If this passage in the review refers to the scene I think it does "he begins cutting between the Chinese surging to escape and the advancing Japanese soldiers who refuse to let them pass," that scene involves two different groups of Chinese soldiers.

如果文章提到那个场景“他开始残杀那些想要逃生的中国人而且有武器的日本并不让他们通过”那个场景反映了中国军人的两面性

3) The "three alls policy" (kill all, loot all, burn all) reference is ahistoric. That policy was implemented to fight the Chinese communists guerrillas in northern China after 1940. The rape of Nanjing occurred in 1937. See Wikipedia. Sadly, the three alls policy shared some similarities with the U.S. strategic hamlet policy in the Vietnam war, or any number of other scorched-earth policies, including those used by the Nationalist Chinese army in WWII.

三光政策(杀光,烧光,抢光)并无历史依据。这项政策是在1940后在于中共游击队战斗时采用的。南京大屠杀发生在1937年。查查维基吧。可悲的是在越战中美国也采用了三光政策的战略,还在其他不知名的战役中,包括二战中的中国中央军

原创评论:http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译:nanaqianqian

The movie is a bit too "balanced" and understated for me. The unspeakable brutality against women during the rape of Nanjing is actually extremely understated in this movie. Contrary to the teaser on the home page, the movie spares quite a lot of brutal detail. The level of systematic bestiality on the part of the Japanese Imperial Army was at a level that remains beyond comprehension to this day.

对于我来说,这部影片过分和谐和保守。南京大屠杀中对那些遭受暴行的女人们来说拍摄的过于保守。相比较起首页的,那些电影替补演员反而有非常多的残忍细节。日本皇军的集体兽行在现代人的眼里看起来依然匪夷所思。

– Michael Barnes, Albany, CA

3. Who produced?

谁拍的?

The film appears to be "Chinese"; it's certainly about China in the past. But is this a project from Hong Kong, Taiwan or the so called Peoples's Republic? Does the Chinese Government have influence (or worse) on the script, editing, etc. As we know, this is not a small point. You can judge on work on face value, but it helps to know about it's context (the intimate vs. the immense?).

– lscott, miami

这部电影看起来是中国人拍的,讲述的是过去的中国。不知道是香港,台湾还是那个中华人民共和国拍的?中国政府是否影响(或者更糟)过剧本,编辑等。你可以通过作品的表面来判断,有助于了解内容(表层含义VS深层含义)

2. the Rape of Iraq

伊拉克大屠杀

We have committed the same crimes against humanity in Iraq... the planned execution, by a perverse American soldier, of that young, 15 year old farmer's son as he stood in his field. This is the great human tragedy, the bleeding human flaw.

– stephan brown, brewster, ma.

我们在伊拉克犯下了一样的反人类罪..一位15岁的少年在自己的田地里被神经兮兮的美国大兵执行死刑。这就是他娘的人性弱点

1. A remarkable Chinese film

一部了不起的中国电影


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热门评论

 以下是引用sanxingesila 在第23楼的发言:
说真的`我不敢看南京南京`心在流血`

我也是,小时候我爸带我去电影院看过一部《南京大屠杀》,我清楚的记得,那时候我整个人已经愤怒到极点了,很想把拽在手里的口香糖丢到荧幕上去,大概有17或者18年了。到现在还是不愿意去看关于南京大屠杀的电影,《南京,南京》刚出来的时候我就告诉我自己,我永远不会去看这部电影,因为我知道自己真的会承受不住那种心痛,那种愤怒,那种屈辱。

我个人永远不会原谅日本这个国家,此仇必报。

从来不需要想起!永远也不会忘记!


同意的右下角!

 以下是引用丛林之狗 在第9楼的发言:
为什么他们如此在乎演员是谁?


因为这个世界上有一种人,说好听点叫做较真,说不好听点叫做较真的煞笔。他们可以拘泥于富豪家的狗身上到底有几个纹身,而不去计较自己最亲爱的大兵同胞正趴在伊拉克哪个田地里的伊拉克妇女身上耸动下体。


影评能不喷中国搞 propaganda ,我已经很欣慰了。正义,不是靠肥头大耳的老外网民的“是否较真”,“是否关注”来维持的。



中国人啊,不要再拿自己的苦难让别人谈论了。自己记住,此仇不报非君子。

小日本心中肯定在暗暗得意,想当年皇军在曾中国如此威风过!

娘打,大刀向鬼子头上砍去!!

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